Shaun and myself and others have been conversing in the middle of another thread so I think we should start it's own thread

Cinema’s Fingerprint.: In a theater without a cellphone being able to ring or vibrate? Hmm, now that is peacefulness in its grandest sense. The strange thing about this topic, between the two of us, I was reading on this topic some weeks ago. They were talking about how movie palaces/theaters evolved, from the nickelodeons to cinema palaces that actually had daycare centers located within them, so that the adults could enjoy their cinema. It's amazing how much potential, the theater can hold, but at the end of the day, its a business.

  Well when I was growing up, everyone, the whole family went to the cinema, and there were "Crying Rooms" where the mothers with their infants would sit, and would look thru a glass window and hear the film with dedicated speakers in their somewhat soundproof room.  The cinema where I would go as a kid had a stage in front of the screen (too early for Rocky Horror Picture show) and it had an organ that someone sometimes would play.  Of course in the 50's we kids could still go on saturdays and watch the westerns, and the serials that were with the cartoons.   Those days are long gong,  As I said before, there is so much to do now, that the viewing audience has fractured.

I still think that the theaters are  still economically viable.  Perhaps if they were  more family friendly,  The parents see something adult (with wine and beer available) The daughter sees her teen romance, the son decides to play lazer tag instead of seeing a film and the concession stand doesn't perform wallet extraction and they can all get together for pizza afterwards, If that happened maybe audience would increase.  I do think 3d is the future for cinemas for a lot of films,  somehow "Pride and Prejudice" in 3D just seems so wrong...  and that will increase audience.  I do perceive digital cinema as a major force in the saving of theaters as the audience fractures more and wishes to see a larger variety of subject matters.

 

Cinema’s Fingerprint.:When I was bringing out the decline in ticket-sales, I was aiming at the logic in comparison to the music industry. Look at how vinyl records went away, then eight-track tapes, then cassettes and now c.d.'s.. The sales in music, in particular, Hip Hop & rap are not looking too good. One could say that the internet has had an influence, but I am one to go with the logic of the internet and the quality of music. Even though cinema survived t.v. programming, and black-market d.v.d sells while the film was in the theater, the industry is still making a buzz. I am not saying that we are seeing the excitement of the 70's, The Godfather, Jaws, and Star Wars type of attraction (those films were powerful in an entertaining way, and the Godfather and Star Wars in a cinematography and editing sense, were outstanding), but films are still making some respectable revenue. I guess you can say, in my mind, when the films improve as with the music, so will the attendance and sales. Perhaps, I am holding onto the cultural appreciation agenda a little too tightly, but I am standing there with a positive wish.

  Films are still making big bucks,  Remember the old adage when working at the studios,  If you want to make art you make movies, if you want to make money you do television.  TV is the big gorilla at the studios, It is the cash cow that keeps things going.  But those days may be on the descent. Networks are stabilizing this year, though they are at a much lower level of viewership than they wre 5 years ago.  (as an aside, when I was nominated in the early 70's for a national emmy that particular show was seen by over 45 million viewers, of course that was only 3 networks and pbs and no cable and no dvds)  and even tho ticket sales are declining, I think if you factor in dvd viewership that actual viewers of movies is a relatively static percentage of the population.  And I think there are some movies from today that are just as exciting and different as Godfather, Jaws, and Star Wars.  They are just different, They mirror the culture of today, they have the sensibilities of today.

So what are the studios to do if the current mode of production and distribution no longer works in the internet age?   That is the Billion dollar question, that is the very huge Gorilla in the room.

 

 

Crying rooms...what a great idea! I never saw one. I do miss drive-ins, which provided a huge screen as well as individual privacy. Last one I went to, my brother was driving a van and he and myself and his wife watched from the open back doors in sprawled comfort while my baby daughter slept peacefully next to me. No babysitter problem, no crowding in with strangers. The option to bring your own food. Why did they ever stop?

The cinema does seem to be pricing itself out of much audience. I go less often now, only for things I really want to see on big screen specifically. DVD is convenient and lends itself to personal privacy and comfort. I know people who have set up impressive home cinema technology for watching them. And you can even stop the film to go heat up that pizza.

It will be interesting to see how things go over the next couple of decades. My guess is that straight to DVD will be less stigma than it has been as more indies choose that route for cost reasons rather than lack of quality, but the trailers will be more important for weeding out the dross. Internet samples may make the difference.

Yes, there were actual playgrounds in the basements of movie theaters

I remember seeing one in Los Angeles (in my US Film History class) pictures of it

They actually had a large sand playground in the basement of the theater with swingsets, and all kinds of things to keep children busy and entertained

I need to find those photos

Remember these at Drive-In theaters.  Here is one (outdoors obviously)

Notice the safety officer in the white coat and hat (on the left) supervising the playground

 

Jaq:
I do miss drive-ins..... Why did they ever stop?

Because the real estate is expensive and drive-ins are limited to seasonal good weather.

Waaaaaaaay back in the mid/late 70's there was a drive-in near where we vacationed in New Jersey that would run the entire Planet of the Apes series of films from sunset to sunrise the weekend before everyone left for college. What an amazing party!

Depending upon where you live there are entertainment venues that "do it all." There is a place in Vermont that has three first-run and one second-run theatres plus a game room, mini-golf, laser tag, batting cages, fast food, a nice restaurant & bar, etc. You can lose yourself - and put a big dent in your budget - for a whole day. Pretty cool!

i'm sure it's obvious that the future of cinema is going down. they keep making repeats of movies and other stuff. men in black 3? really?

and everyone is making remakes of movies from the 70s and tv shows from the 70s.
be original hollywood.

Dusk Rats:
i'm sure it's obvious that the future of cinema is going down. they keep making repeats of movies and other stuff. men in black 3? really?

and everyone is making remakes of movies from the 70s and tv shows from the 70s.
be original hollywood.

Ugg and Ogg, two cave men, are sitting in their cave the night before the big hunt. They build a fire and settle in for a long, restless night of worrying about how things will go the next day. Ugg leans in to tell the tribe's epic hunt song that they've told every night before every big hunt for as long as anyone in the tribe can remember. But Ogg stops him, "Don't you have anything original?"

Can you name a time in the history of the world where the predominant form of storytelling wasn't based on reworking existing stories into new contexts?

I'll give you a hint..... you can't. Because that's what storytelling is. Remakes. Shakespeare did remakes, he just made them much better than the original. So did the ancient Greeks. The Jews of Moses' time. So did Ugg and Ogg. You take old stories, rework them to fit with what you see going on in the world around you. That's the job.

Now if you want to complain that Hollywood today is getting lazy and they don't put the effort into a lot of the films that they should, I don't think you'll get much argument. But it's not the remaking and reworking that's the problem.

The future of cinema is "going down" because people are finding other things to do with their time.

Man, what kind of scripts have you been writing? lol...I mean I'm down with the whole setup that agents wants "the same but different", but to say storytelling is just "Remakes" is silly. Now if you're saying "Ideas" are not orginal I would have to agree with you. After all there's nothing new under the sun.

James:

Dusk Rats:
i'm sure it's obvious that the future of cinema is going down. they keep making repeats of movies and other stuff. men in black 3? really?

and everyone is making remakes of movies from the 70s and tv shows from the 70s.
be original hollywood.

Ugg and Ogg, two cave men, are sitting in their cave the night before the big hunt. They build a fire and settle in for a long, restless night of worrying about how things will go the next day. Ugg leans in to tell the tribe's epic hunt song that they've told every night before every big hunt for as long as anyone in the tribe can remember. But Ogg stops him, "Don't you have anything original?"

Can you name a time in the history of the world where the predominant form of storytelling wasn't based on reworking existing stories into new contexts?

I'll give you a hint..... you can't. Because that's what storytelling is. Remakes. Shakespeare did remakes, he just made them much better than the original. So did the ancient Greeks. The Jews of Moses' time. So did Ugg and Ogg. You take old stories, rework them to fit with what you see going on in the world around you. That's the job.

Now if you want to complain that Hollywood today is getting lazy and they don't put the effort into a lot of the films that they should, I don't think you'll get much argument. But it's not the remaking and reworking that's the problem.

The future of cinema is "going down" because people are finding other things to do with their time.

If you leave, you leaving the best:
Man, what kind of scripts have you been writing? lol...

My scripts used to be wildly original. It took me years to realize that the negative reactions I was getting from the industry weren't about knocking down creativity. It was about the industry knowing better than me what connects with people. No one cares that I can write a "truly original" story. People care if I can write a story that is meaningful to them.

I mean I'm down with the whole setup that agents wants "the same but different", but to say storytelling is just "Remakes" is silly.

Do you have a counter argument? Can you provide an example of a truly original story that connects to an audience? No, because there aren't any. Every successful story is a reworking of existing stories into a new context. That's the whole point of storytelling, to guide (or document) our transition into the new contexts we keep find ourselves in.

Now if you're saying "Ideas" are not orginal I would have to agree with you. After all there's nothing new under the sun.

Exactly.

"My scripts used to be wildly original. It took me years to realize that the negative reactions I was getting from the industry weren't about knocking down creativity. It was about the industry knowing better than me what connects with people. No one cares that I can write a "truly original" story. People care if I can write a story that is meaningful to them."

But who are your audience?  Are you trying to reach blockbuster status which would suit you well if you kept your script simple so everyone could enjoy it?  What is your demographic?  Who is it suppose to be meaningful to?

"Do you have a counter argument? Can you provide an example of a truly original story that connects to an audience? No, because there aren't any. Every successful story is a reworking of existing stories into a new context. That's the whole point of storytelling, to guide (or document) our transition into the new contexts we keep find ourselves"

Off the top I really don't think Inglorius basterds was a remake.  Sure the title was the same as another film, but the plot was totally different.  Or what about Usual Suspects?  or Kill Bill?  Pulp Fiction? (I dig Tarantino as you can see)  What about Do The Right Thing?  Crooklyn?  SHe hate Me?   A Bronx Tale?  The Matrix?  Friday?  Fight Club (WHich should really drive my point home)?   Lost in Translation?  40 year old Virgin? how about Funny People?   Chasing Amy?  I think those are enough examples-All of these are orginal screenplays..All of these connect with an audience.

The thing is as a writer, we tend to write from our experiences, and our environment.  We get our inspiration from somewhere...And since we're not from the same environment, or share the same experiences, we can't remake a story unless we're trying to do so.  We can easily remake Romeo and Juliet, or the War of the Roses, or even Star Wars..

All of the projects i have written I have grabbed from personal experience....And you say this is not gonna connect with the audience? Depends on my target market....Are some of my scripts for older white man?  I would say not..The first thing I ask when I'm thinking of a project is who is gonna listen to my story? And i start from there.. 

  If my logline for a project was a young black male tries to escape to realm of the ghetto with dreams of basketbal (Or rap, or dancing, etc.)l you would say I heard that story before...This would be just a remake of "Get rich or die Trying", Above The Rim", etc (Insert any Hood Movie here) But if I said the logline was an black male with an IQ of 160 tries to escape the pressure of crime in the inner city as he prepares for life after High School..and  the street life..This would be an orginial story.  And the audience..Urban young adults for 17-25..and it would connect with them..

What I'm  most upset about the entertainment industry is there's no risk being taken... Everybody is scared of bombing out....That their film is gonna be the next "Battlefield Earth"..So there' looking for remakes, or Franchises.  Whoever gets their hands on the Terminator Franchise (I heard it's for sell, get your hands on that fast) is gonna have a rich commodity on their hand. Judd Apatow is my hero for taking risks in the present.  Spike Lee took risks in the 80's and 90's   Touched on Subject no one would dare talk about in public....Kevin Smith took risks....Spielberg took risks..So did George Lucas.   We need more risks taker...If you want to stay safe..fine..But I'm not afraid to fall out the sky (How did you get so fly?) 

Basically..If you can create a cult following..You can get the attention of the Hollywood execs..

Uncle Bob:

Jaq:
I do miss drive-ins..... Why did they ever stop?

Because the real estate is expensive and drive-ins are limited to seasonal good weather.

But why did they disappear in California? ;P

If you leave, you leaving the best:
Or what about Usual Suspects?  or Kill Bill?  Pulp Fiction? (I dig Tarantino as you can see)  What about Do The Right Thing?  Crooklyn?  SHe hate Me?   A Bronx Tale?  The Matrix?  Friday?  Fight Club (WHich should really drive my point home)?   Lost in Translation?  40 year old Virgin? how about Funny People?   Chasing Amy?

You left out Amelie. ;)

You make a good point though.

If you leave, you leaving the best: But if I said the logline was an black male with an IQ of 160 tries to escape the pressure of crime in the inner city as he prepares for life after High School..and  the street life..This would be an orginial story.  And the audience..Urban young adults for 17-25..and it would connect with them...

Possibly only those with the 160 IQ. Unfortunately there are too many people in the world who can't identify with intelligence.

If you leave, you leaving the best:
What I'm  most upset about the entertainment industry is there's no risk being taken... Everybody is scared of bombing out....

That's business, even if it does make a lot of samey movies crank out of the machine. It's down to us indies to take the risks where originality is concerned.

If you leave, you leaving the best:
Basically..If you can create a cult following..You can get the attention of the Hollywood execs..

I plan to test that theory. ;)

If you leave, you leaving the best:
what about Usual Suspects?  or Kill Bill?  Pulp Fiction?   What about Do The Right Thing?  Crooklyn?  SHe hate Me?   A Bronx Tale?  The Matrix?  Friday?  Fight Club (WHich should really drive my point home)?   Lost in Translation?  40 year old Virgin? how about Funny People?   Chasing Amy?

They might be unique re-tellings, but they're all based on old themes. Spike Lee's coming of age stories, Kill Bill is just remakes of tales of sacrifice, suffering and redemption (Been done for thousands of years, that one has) It's all been told before. The stories you mention are just repackaged in a new flavor, but still very familiar themes.

Sydney:

If you leave, you leaving the best:
what about Usual Suspects?  or Kill Bill?  Pulp Fiction?   What about Do The Right Thing?  Crooklyn?  SHe hate Me?   A Bronx Tale?  The Matrix?  Friday?  Fight Club (WHich should really drive my point home)?   Lost in Translation?  40 year old Virgin? how about Funny People?   Chasing Amy?

They might be unique re-tellings, but they're all based on old themes. Spike Lee's coming of age stories, Kill Bill is just remakes of tales of sacrifice, suffering and redemption (Been done for thousands of years, that one has) It's all been told before. The stories you mention are just repackaged in a new flavor, but still very familiar themes.

Exactly. These films seem original (some of them) because they've been successfully reworked to fit the world around us by great filmmakers (some of them), but the stories are as old as the hills.