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  • 27 juin 2005 08:16
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    • William
    • Garçon/36
    • NORWOOD, MASSACHUSETTS, US
    Despite the article headline, the supreme court actually ruled that they are okay in moderation.



    What do you think? Right? Wrong? Pure politics? Seperation of Church and State? Attempt by right wing to force us to treat them as rulers? Unfair acts against Christians?



    Opine!





    Court: No Ten Commandments in Courthouses



    Jun 27, 10:47 AM (ET)

    By HOPE YEN



    WASHINGTON (AP) - In a narrowly drawn ruling, the Supreme Court struck down Ten Commandments displays in courthouses Monday, holding that two exhibits in Kentucky crossed the line between separation of church and state because they promoted a religious message.



    The 5-4 decision, first of two seeking to mediate the bitter culture war over religion's place in public life, took a case-by-case approach to this vexing issue. In the decision, the court declined to prohibit all displays in court buildings or on government property.



    In a stinging dissent, Justice Antonin Scalia worried publicly about "the dictatorship of a shifting Supreme Court majority."



    The justices voting on the prevailing side Monday left themselves legal wiggle room on this issue, however, saying that some displays - like their own courtroom frieze - would be permissible if they're portrayed neutrally in order to honor the nation's legal history.



    But framed copies in two Kentucky courthouses went too far in endorsing religion, the court held.



    "The touchstone for our analysis is the principle that the First Amendment mandates government neutrality between religion and religion, and between religion and nonreligion," Justice David H. Souter wrote for the majority.



    "When the government acts with the ostensible and predominant purpose of advancing religion, it violates that central Establishment clause value of official religious neutrality," he said.



    Souter was joined in his opinion by other members of the liberal bloc - Justices John Paul Stevens, Ruth Bader Ginsburg and Stephen G. Breyer, as well as Reagan appointee Sandra Day O'Connor, who provided the swing vote.



    In his dissent, Scalia argued that Ten Commandments displays are a legitimate tribute to the nation's religious and legal history.



    Government officials may have had a religious purpose when they originally posted the Ten Commandments display by itself in 1999. But their efforts to dilute the religious message since then by hanging other historical documents in the courthouses made it constitutionally adequate, Scalia said.



    In his dissent, Scalia blasted the majority for ignoring the rule of law to push their own personal policy preferences.



    "What distinguishes the rule of law from the dictatorship of a shifting Supreme Court majority is the absolutely indispensable requirement that judicial opinions be grounded in consistently applied principle," Scalia wrote.



    He was joined in his opinion by Chief William H. Rehnquist, as well as Justice Anthony Kennedy and Clarence Thomas.



    "In the court's view , the impermissible motive was apparent from the initial displays of the Ten Commandments all by themselves: When that occurs: the Court says, a religious object is unmistakable," he wrote. "Surely that cannot be."



    "The Commandments have a proper place in our civil history," Scalia wrote.



    The case was one of two heard by the Supreme Court in March involving Ten Commandments displays in Kentucky and Texas. That case asks whether the Ten Commandments may be displayed on the grounds outside the state capitol.



    The cases marked the first time since 1980 the high court tackled the emotional issue, in a courtroom boasting a wall carving of Moses holding the sacred tablets.



    A broader ruling than the one rendered Monday could have determined the allowable role of religion in a wide range of public contexts, from the use of religious music in a school concert to students' recitation of "under God" in the Pledge of Allegiance. It is a question that has sharply divided the lower courts in recent years.



    But in their ruling Monday, justices chose to stick with a cautious case-by-case approach.



    Two Kentucky counties originally hung the copies of the Ten Commandments in their courthouses. After the ACLU filed suit, the counties modified their displays to add other documents demonstrating "America's Christian heritage," including the national motto of "In God We Trust" and a version of the Congressional Record declaring 1983 the "Year of the Bible."



    When a federal court ruled those displays had the effect of endorsing religion, the counties erected a third Ten Commandments display with surrounding documents such as the Bill of Rights and Star-Spangled Banner to highlight their role in "our system of law and government."



    The Cincinnati-based 6th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeal subsequently struck down the third display as a "sham" for the religious intent behind it.



    Ten Commandments displays are supported by a majority of Americans, according to an AP-Ipsos poll. The poll taken in late February found that 76 percent support it and 23 percent oppose it.



    The last time the Supreme Court weighed in on the issue was 1980, when it struck down a Kentucky law requiring Ten Commandments displays in public classrooms.



    The case is McCreary County v. ACLU, 03-1693.
  • 27 juin 2005 09:06
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    I have a split feeling about the decision.



    As I understand it, This comes down to intent "Are displays of religious material meant to promote or advance a certain religion" or just of a historical or artistic nature.



    This in itself is a good idea, But I do think it becomes somewhat subjective as to what is meant to promote religion. Basically I see it as the supreme court has taken that power on itself to make such decisions, which is just what I think their real agenda is.
  • 27 juin 2005 09:42
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    Acid Trance Wrote:

    Do you think it should be relegated to the states to decide? Personally, I believe it should be. SCOTUS has enough power especially with it's recent ruling on eminent domain. Though, knowing how people are in this country they'll whine, but do nothing about it.




    I'm all about states rights.
  • 27 juin 2005 09:46
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    • Jeff Lee
    • Garçon/25
    • Bossier City, Louisiana, US
    William Wrote:

    WASHINGTON (AP) - In a narrowly drawn ruling, the Supreme Court struck down Ten Commandments displays in courthouses Monday, holding that two exhibits in Kentucky crossed the line between separation of church and state because they promoted a religious message.

    The case is McCreary County v. ACLU, 03-1693.




    Good decision in my opinion. Now if they could just reverse the decision of the eminent domain case....
  • 27 juin 2005 10:12
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    • William
    • Garçon/36
    • NORWOOD, MASSACHUSETTS, US
    Demetria Wrote:

    and then theyre going to wonder why america will get worse off...oh my ...





    shouldve stuck with jesus.




    Hrm... I think Jesus' commandments were different. "Love thy neighbor" an stuff. That sort of thing is like holy water to lawyers.
  • 27 juin 2005 10:33
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    • William
    • Garçon/36
    • NORWOOD, MASSACHUSETTS, US
    PELUSO! Wrote:

    Just out of curiosity...how many in here realize that such displays violate the second commandment? Depending on one's interpretation it could be violating the first commandment...but definitely the second one.




    Which is that, the 'no flash photography!" one?
  • 27 juin 2005 12:00
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    I just have a slight problem with people/jurors walking into the courthouse view "THOU SHALT NOT KILL" before hearing a murder trial.. Might cause a little bias...
  • 27 juin 2005 12:40
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    • William
    • Garçon/36
    • NORWOOD, MASSACHUSETTS, US
    I actually kinda like their answer. It all comes down to how you do it. If you do it in a manner that clearly intends to promote your religion, it's bad. If you do it in a less in-your-face manner, it ain't so bad.



    Leaves room for judgement. Just basically says 'don't go overboard there son."



    I approve.
  • 28 juin 2005 09:12
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    • Joe
    • Garçon/27
    • Susanville, California, US
    I actually some what agree.



    I don't believe in "Seperation of Church and State, " the way it is portraid in the media and how many uneducated people just accept it.



    As long as it's displayed where it's not endourcing a specific religion then it is not violating the constitution.



    That's what the amendment is all about anyway. Not forcing a single religion.
  • 28 juin 2005 09:15
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    If this is proposed by a certain religous church it should not be allowed.
  • 28 juin 2005 11:52
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    Joe Wrote:

    I actually some what agree.


    I don't believe in "Seperation of Church and State, " the way it is portraid in the media and how many uneducated people just accept it.


    As long as it's displayed where it's not endourcing a specific religion then it is not violating the constitution.


    That's what the amendment is all about anyway. Not forcing a single religion.




    How is the government singling out the precepts of one religion to billboard in a courthouse not endorsing that religion?
  • 28 juin 2005 15:05
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    Ohne Mich Wrote:



    [t]Demetria Wrote:

    and then theyre going to wonder why america will get worse off...oh my ...



    shouldve stuck with jesus.[/t]



    Ironically, it wasn't until after Rome converted to "Jesus" that it fell.





    Christians cause nothing but trouble.
  • 28 juin 2005 15:52
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    • Dr. Dreidel
    • Garçon/32
    • Tallahassee/Jacksonville, Florida, US
    Bohemian Playboy Wrote:

    I just have a slight problem with people/jurors walking into the courthouse view "THOU SHALT NOT KILL" before hearing a murder trial.. Might cause a little bias...






    The correct translation is "murder" not kill
  • 5 août 2006 19:57
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    I don't think the ruling goes far enough! I think that ANY display of a specific religion's specific tenets is an endorsement of said religion.



    And Scalia is, once again WAYYY off here! If the Ten Commandments were of significant civil or historical value then why do only THREE of the ten commandments even have laws corresponding to them?! Even THOSE laws that relate to stealing, murder and such can be obviously seen to arise from a secular need.
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