In Christianity (which I am citing only because I don't know much about the other major religions) it seems that we (humans) are what creation is all about. We are the players on the stage and everything else is scenery.



Viruses, insects, bacteria, plants - scenery.

A deer in the forest - scenery.

A shrimp living and dying on a hydrothermal vent on the ocean floor - scenery.

The life cycle of a star, making the heavier elements over hundreds of millions of years, then blasting the material into space to finally condense and form the planets - one of which is ours... Setting the stage.

The millions of galaxies, each one made of millions of suns, planets, moons, asteriods - scenery.



All just stage and scenery so that we can come along for 80 years (if we're lucky) and accept God or not, and so to move to an eternity in heaven, or not.



Does this view demean the vaste, fascinating, infinitely complex splendour of the universe?

What are your views on this ?



You could argue that being on Earth for - as you put it, roughly 80 years- is pretty pointless as one will eventually die. But to Christians, we believe that on Earth your durt is to serve God and in heaven you are rewarded.

Apocalyptic religious zealots are obsessed with the world coming to an end.

I Like Chocolate Milk wrote:

So life is pointless unless you're going to be rewarded? That's a pretty hollow view. The point of life is to carry on life.

No - life is not pointless, its to serve and worship God with your heart, mind and soul. Its the worshiping God bit which is important in life. Thats not hollow in my opinion.

Phoenix wrote:

What are your views on this ?



You could argue that being on Earth for - as you put it, roughly 80 years- is pretty pointless as one will eventually die. But to Christians, we believe that on Earth your durt is to serve God and in heaven you are rewarded.

I haven't argued that our existence is pointless, nor would I. That's completely irrelevent to my question.



My view is that it's one hell of a big stage and an incredibly complex bit of scenery, and it seems somehow intellectually unsatisfying (to put it mildly) to regard ourselves as the most important thing in it.



Your views?

I Like Chocolate Milk wrote:

So the 4 billion people who don't subscribe to your belief system are living pointless lives then?

No, while Christians have this purpose, other people also have important views. I'm not arrogant and think that Christians are superior to non-Christians. While I think that Christians have a purpose in God, other people also have a purpose. Worshiping God can be somthing you do in every day actions to help others, you could argue that even if you don't worship God, every good deed anyone does is worshiping God, whether you believe thats what you're doing or not.

I haven't argued that our existence is pointless, nor would I. That's completely irrelevent to my question.



My view is that it's one hell of a big stage and an incredibly complex bit of scenery, and it seems somehow intellectually unsatisfying (to put it mildly) to regard ourselves as the most important thing in it.



Your views?

But I don't agree we are the most important thing. "All are equal in the eyes of God" - this dosn't necessary refer to just Humans.

Christianitys beliefs and values are drawen on the writings of the bible, but the bible was not the words out of gods, or even jesus's, own mouth. The bible was written years and years AFTER jesus had come and gone by so-called 'wise men', the stories in it passed by word of mouth over the years like chinese whispers before being written down. As anyone who listens to gossip, reads newspapers or watched the news knows, as tales get told and re-told over and over again the facts get twisted, the truth is stretched and dramatised untill the original truth is lost in all the layers of untruths. Basically the stories of Jesus were olden-day gossip, like our urban ledgends of today - the element of truth is there but has been blowen vastly out of proportion.

For example during world war 2 when londoners were taking shelter in the underground during the blitz my grandmother recalls being told tales of Jack the ripper by older folk (baring in mind in the 1930's the ripper murders were still causing shockwaves among people, especially in london) One story was told of how a witness saw a gentleman leave the home of Mary Kelly, the last victim, and in a statement to police said ''he stole away into the night like a devil upto no good''. By time my grandmother was told this story years later, this man was covered in blood, had eyes that glowed red and hoofs like a devil! So you can see that any tale told over and over can and will change over time.

Also baring in mind in the days the bible was written people were unaware of the hallucinagenic properties of the cactus. Cactus plants and their water were widely used by all sorts of people, who beleived them to have magical and healing properties. Wise men especially would use them during their work as they believed it to help the mind. Preists would use them in exocisms, mothers would use them in childbirth and sick or dying people were given it to ease whatever ailment they were suffering from.

So basically the point im making is the bible was in essence gossip and tales that were years and years old written down by old men tripping out on cactus juice; olden-time lsd.

I dont deny there probably was a man named jesus who caused a huge stir and gathered had many beleivers and followers - cult leaders of today are capable of this. But the stories about him were wildly exaggerated as time went on to make them more exciting when telling.

In my opinion I see nothing wrong with something that brings someone comfort and hope when thay need it, but what defines us as human is our ability to question things and our need to know WHY and HOW. So to wonder about any religion is a totally human thing to do, which makes me wonder why do sane intelligent rational people blindly and totally accept and beleive the words of these so called wise-men who are so old their brains are deteriorating and need to dose up on hallucinogens just so they can work?

By todays standards that would be like putting ozzy ozbourne on a pedestal, giving him a sh*t-load of lsd then beleiving the drivel that comes out his mouth, crazy..........

What's Afoot? wrote:

In Christianity (which I am citing only because I don't know much about the other major religions) it seems that we (humans) are what creation is all about. We are the players on the stage and everything else is scenery.



Viruses, insects, bacteria, plants - scenery.

A deer in the forest - scenery.

A shrimp living and dying on a hydrothermal vent on the ocean floor - scenery.

The life cycle of a star, making the heavier elements over hundreds of millions of years, then blasting the material into space to finally condense and form the planets - one of which is ours... Setting the stage.

The millions of galaxies, each one made of millions of suns, planets, moons, asteriods - scenery.



All just stage and scenery so that we can come along for 80 years (if we're lucky) and accept God or not, and so to move to an eternity in heaven, or not.



Does this view demean the vaste, fascinating, infinitely complex splendour of the universe?

I would say that the universe doesn't care in the least for your fascination with it and would you please stop it with your obsessing? It's really just embarrassing, you know.

Phoenix wrote:

I haven't argued that our existence is pointless, nor would I. That's completely irrelevent to my question.



My view is that it's one hell of a big stage and an incredibly complex bit of scenery, and it seems somehow intellectually unsatisfying (to put it mildly) to regard ourselves as the most important thing in it.



Your views?

But I don't agree we are the most important thing. "All are equal in the eyes of God" - this dosn't necessary refer to just Humans.

read your bible once in awhile.



Animals are not equal to man in any judeo-christian thought other than your own narrow mind.

Katryna wrote:



Animals are not equal to man in any judeo-christian thought other than your own narrow mind.

I object to that, don't call me narrow minded. And I don't believe that we are superior to animals. So don't have a go because I think that.

Phoenix wrote:

Katryna wrote:



Animals are not equal to man in any judeo-christian thought other than your own narrow mind.

I object to that, don't call me narrow minded. And I don't believe that we are superior to animals. So don't have a go because I think that.

Read that book you are so fond of.



See if your belief jives with what it says. It doesn't by the way.



Expand your mind a bit and I wont call you narrow minded.

Kevin wrote:

What's Afoot? wrote:

In Christianity (which I am citing only because I don't know much about the other major religions) it seems that we (humans) are what creation is all about. We are the players on the stage and everything else is scenery.



Viruses, insects, bacteria, plants - scenery.

A deer in the forest - scenery.

A shrimp living and dying on a hydrothermal vent on the ocean floor - scenery.

The life cycle of a star, making the heavier elements over hundreds of millions of years, then blasting the material into space to finally condense and form the planets - one of which is ours... Setting the stage.

The millions of galaxies, each one made of millions of suns, planets, moons, asteriods - scenery.



All just stage and scenery so that we can come along for 80 years (if we're lucky) and accept God or not, and so to move to an eternity in heaven, or not.



Does this view demean the vaste, fascinating, infinitely complex splendour of the universe?

I would say that the universe doesn't care in the least for your fascination with it and would you please stop it with your obsessing? It's really just embarrassing, you know.

I'm sorry for the embarrassment. I'll try to cut out my bad habits, but my mind does seem to have a mind of it's own in these matters :0)

Phoenix wrote:

I haven't argued that our existence is pointless, nor would I. That's completely irrelevent to my question.



My view is that it's one hell of a big stage and an incredibly complex bit of scenery, and it seems somehow intellectually unsatisfying (to put it mildly) to regard ourselves as the most important thing in it.



Your views?

But I don't agree we are the most important thing. "All are equal in the eyes of God" - this dosn't necessary refer to just Humans.

OK. I'm glad you feel that way. But doesn't the whole thing about man 'having dominion' over the animals and so on mean that we're supposed to feel superior?



Martin.

the question is flawed