Romans Chapter 1 is an elegant description of humanist man. Wanting to lead a life that is of his own choosing apart from God's leading, the natural man actually follows a pattern toward degeneration and death that is not under his control. Romans 1:28 warns us that there is a point where God will reach with us where he gives us over to a reprobate mind. Many people have wondered if at this point a person may be beyond hope. It is imperative, then, that if we want to discover God's plan for our life and perform the purpose for which He has created us, we should study the habits of those who fall into this pattern and do the opposite.



16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek.



This verse waves the first red flag that could indicate a problem. Are you ashamed of the gospel of Christ? Do you find it wearisome going to church? Is there a lack of enthusiasm for learning the things of God? The natural tendency for man is to hate the idea that God claims ownership over his life. This means that ego must be dethroned in your life, and Jesus Christ take first place. The opposite is enthusiasm, boldness, and eagerness to share Jesus Christ with others.



Many people in the sciences are in it for the thrill of achievement. A sign on a chemistry professor's door caught my eye that said, "If a person comes to me and says he wants to go into science to save the world, I encourage him rather to go into charity. Scientists needs egotists, true egotists, who enjoy science simply for its own sake."



I would say that the reward in this is tenuous and fleeting at best. It is like the Preacher says in Ecclesiastes, "Vanity of vanities, all is vanity" and "I have seen all of the works that are done under the sun; and indeed, all is vanity and grasping for the wind." Perhaps the chemistry professor's advice is good, it is far better to repair a relationship, right a wrong or bring service to others than it is to try to reach the pinnacle of scientific glory.



The gospel of Christ runs counter to man's ego. This is why some feel embarrassed by it. There is no room for self achievement: Jesus Christ took care of it all. False religions all have at its center a set of requirements through which salvation can be achieved. Unfortunately, in every case, man will flunk even the false religion's set of rules. In Christianity, all the law serves is as a indicator that everyone has the need of salvation, and man cannot achieve it apart from Jesus Christ. On the cross, Jesus took our burden of sin upon himself, and paid the price for us. What remains is that we receive the gift of eternal life from him, and accept him as Lord. This concept can be foreign to those in the academic community where so much emphasis is placed on grades, degrees, publications, honors. The fact that all of this higher learning counts nothing toward salvation irks some people. But in order to make salvation available to everyone, God made it simple.



Years ago when I was a young teenager, I remember going into a teenage hangout to get some ice cream, and feeling uncomfortable because I was there with my parents. Perhaps this is the same sort of feeling people have with Jesus. It is that juvenile sense of embarrassment that prevents many people from taking Jesus Christ and His gospel with them where ever they go. I think that even Christians who have been following the Lord for years are tempted on a daily basis at this point. It is easy to be a friend to Jesus Christ in church. Shouldn't it be the same in the workplace, in the laboratory, on the college campus, in the classroom? If the word of God applies on Sunday morning, shouldn't it apply to everything else the rest of the week? Why should we be embarrassed or ashamed when we have the King of Kings walking beside us who paid a terrible price just to gain our friendship and fellowship?



The first signpost on the reprobate road is being ashamed of the gospel of Christ. The remedy is being bold enough to take Jesus Christ as a companion into the workplace, school, job or laboratory and living your life with Him by your side.



17For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: for as it is written, the just shall live by faith.





Once a person neglects the gospel of Christ, or fails to make Jesus Christ a constant companion, the next area of temptation is faith. Faith in Jesus Christ is knowing that his word is trustworthy, and that he will come through in every area of your life. If you don't spend enough time with God, it is likely that your understanding of him may fail eventually, and your perception of Him may be skewed. Once your relationship with Him is broken or strained, doubts begin to creep in that damage your faith in Him. Some people have a perception of God as a celestial killjoy. Others think he is a Santa Claus in the sky who dispenses blessings like a vending machine. Many cults are built upon false perceptions as to who God really is, and worship a false Jesus. Not knowing Him, they worship a false picture of Him. Then once that false picture breaks down and fails them, they plunge deeper toward unbelief.



Faith in Him is the only requirement God asks of us. And even in this he helps us, providing enough evidence that means something to each of us personally. Therefore the second signpost on the reprobate road is a mistrust of God, which is lack of faith. To cure this, a person must erase whatever false picture they may have of God, and eagerly seek to know him for whom he is.



18For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men; who hold the truth in unrighteousness.



19Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God has shown it unto them.



20For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood from the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse;





After a person's finds that his foundation for faith is unsteady, he may realize that although he knows what is right and wrong, and what the truth is, he finds that he does and thinks the opposite. This is an indication that all men know what the truth is in their hearts, that there is enough information for someone to make a positive decision to follow God just by observing His creation. Once a person reaches the point where he holds the truth in unrighteousness, he begins to make excuses trying to justify why he does the opposite of what he knows to be the right thing to do. This scripture explodes the notion that God has forgotten about the heathen who has never heard the gospel. Because God is a personal God as well as an infinite God, he has the ability to make himself known to someone who truly seeks after him. Skeptics try to blame God for the condition of those who have never heard about him. But God's wrath is upon those who play the game of hiding from the truth that is written on their own heart.



One place where this is demonstrated is that the theory of evolution ignores the basic logic of design. It is easy to recognize something that is created by man. A chair does not materialize from wood splinters created from lightning bolts hitting a tree. You can tell a bird's nest by its shape and arrangement of pine needles, bark and twigs, and you don't expect such a thing to assemble as the result of the wind. It is so much more compelling to believe that life with its incredibly complex arrangement of DNA and proteins was created by God. Dr. Michael Behe, the author of Darwin's Black Box, talks about life being irreducibly complex. He uses the illustration that the mousetrap will not catch mice with its individual pieces. The base by itself does not catch mice, the spring by itself does not catch mice, neither does the cheese. But when they all come together, the mousetrap will perform its intended function. So much more so is life; proteins need DNA and DNA needs proteins, millions of biochemical reactions must operate in conjunction with one another or life does not exist. One example of this is the function of enzymes and coenzymes. A biochemical reaction is catalyzed with amazing efficiency with the use of enzymes. As the level of the product of a chemical reaction increases until there is enough of it, it binds onto the enzyme forcing it into a different shape. This shuts off the process. This means of self regulation could have only been designed by an intelligent creator.



The Creator reveals himself personally to everyone through the things he has made. Even little children understand this, and faith comes easy to them. It is the self-assured college student that finds it so difficult to see God as creator. Therefore, the third signpost is knowing what the truth is, not following the truth, and making an excuse for wrong behavior. The consequences for this are immediate and starts a dangerous breakdown of your relationship with God. If you find yourself in this state, stop making excuses, realize how wonderfully you are made, and admit that you need Jesus Christ.



21Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.





There are several warning signs in this passage of scripture. The fourth signpost is if you find yourself getting mad at God. This is typically revealed in your language. Someone who has a heart for the things of God would never ask God to "damn" something or someone, especially if they know the full consequences of what they are asking. But these word flow freely from the lips of many people on a regular basis, and it reveals their heart. If someone drops an anvil on your toe, you wouldn't yell out in pain, "Bill Clinton" would you? But many people freely utter the name of Jesus Christ as an swear word, as if he is to blame for the immediately calamity at hand. These people reveal that they do know God, but they don't glorify Him as such.



Complainers are another breed of people that hang around at the fourth signpost. No matter what the conditions are, they cannot find a way to be comfortable. Their lack of contentment reveals the condition of their heart. I imagine they could find something to gripe about in heaven if they were there.



The people who gather at our church spend a great deal of time in praise and worship of God. What a wonderful cure for grumblers; put them in this kind of atmosphere where beautiful music and songs of praise lift you up. One of the most beautiful things about a husband and wife relationship is when a partner appreciates and respects what the other is doing and tells them so. This is very true with God. A prayer of thanksgiving is actually talking with God and telling him how much you appreciate him for specific things he has done for you. If you have a thankful heart towards God, you won't stay long at the fourth signpost.



The fifth signpost is becoming vain in your imaginations. This could reveal itself in paranoia, thinking that God is out to get you, or that other people are out to get you. This results in imaginative but incorrect ideas about Christians or the nature of God. Jerry Bergman is well known for his anti-racist, anti-nazi articles that demonstrate that both of these destructive beliefs have their roots in evolution. He was recently attacked by an evolutionist, who accused him as being a neo-nazi and a racist! He jumped to this wrong conclusion after reading part of a review of Jerry Bergman's work by another evolutionist, but not the whole thing. If he had been careful to check his sources, he wouldn't have made such an accusation.



If you find yourself leaning on signpost number five, making up stories to accuse Christians falsely or twisting scripture around to mean something it doesn't, it is just a few short steps to signpost number six, which is a darkened heart. The way the Bible talks about the heart is in the colloquial sense as the center of emotions. Instead of a bright, cheery spirit, their foolish heart becomes dark.



You know these kind of people. They walk around with a black storm cloud above their head, and lightning strikes them every once in a while. They read the obituaries every day, and if their name isn't there, they sigh, get dressed and go to work. Hypochondriacs are a perfect example of those who are at signpost number six. Pessimists, negative thinkers, gossips, and those who spread rumors are likely to be at this point. The antidote for this poisonous attitude is thankfulness. If you find that you cannot feel thankful, RUN to the nearest Bible believing church who enthusiastically worships God. Join in with them whether you feel like it or not. If you don't, you could arrive at the next signpost.



22Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools.





Oh, what an attractive thing it is to be thought to be smart! Signpost number seven is the belief that the knowledge you possess makes you wise. One of the proverbs says, "Let another man praise thee, and not thine own lips." A person who boasts about his accomplishments robs himself of the reward of someone else blessing him. An arrogant person is very difficult to reach for God because he believes that his interpretation of the facts precludes the existence of God.



True wisdom is the application of knowledge in pursuit of the truth with the motivation to do the right thing. This is a gift of God, and not the result of any personal achievement. Solomon became great and wise because he asked God to give him wisdom to discern truth from error.



Many people like to think that their accumulation of knowledge translates into wisdom. But knowledge and wisdom are two different exercises. Merely filling your brain cells with facts does not mean that you know how to practically apply them. In fact, many people push themselves further and further from the truth in their pursuit of knowledge. With so much at stake in their own theories and viewpoints and perhaps their career, in order to accept Christ and acquire true wisdom, they would have to unlearn gigabytes of knowledge, wipe their hard disks clean and start from scratch. Timothy talks about them as "ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth." (II Timothy 3:7). Scientists who have been taught megaevolution all of their lives are in this situation. They have based their research upon it, their careers upon it and their reputation on it. Now, though their theory is crumbling underneath them, they doggedly continue to fight to save it because they know they will have to relearn everything.



23And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.





Signpost number eight is humanism, where man worships himself. This is coupled with the evolutionary world view which is much like the old pagan nature worship. The humanist places himself as the crowning achievement of the long struggle of evolution. Henry M. Morris, in his book The Long War Against God traces the history of modern humanist and evolutionary thought right back to the original sin in the garden of Eden where the serpent said unto the woman "Ye shall not surely die: For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil."



This temptation is the essence of what makes up humanist thought. Are we smarter than God? Can we make value judgments against Him? This is what Satan was doing in the garden of Eden, questioning the integrity of God, accusing Him of hiding some blessing from Adam and Eve. Isn't that the essence of humanism? Dr. Morris thinks that Satan himself believes that he is the product of evolutionary chance, and was not created by God. The humanist reasons that if he is the product of millions of years of evolution, he was not created by God and is therefore not responsible to him. A result of this, and maybe a reason for this shows up in signpost number nine.



24Wherefore God also gave them up to the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonor their own bodies between themselves:



25Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.





God made the marriage covenant a beautiful and precious thing not to be trifled with, and is a parallel to a person's relationship with God. Believing that God is somehow withholding pleasure from them, it is a small step for a person to proceed from humanism to sexual sin. Marriage, the family, and the concept of being faithful to one partner for life is continually under attack. At this point many people have their thinking so turned around as to believe God's promises are lies. If they use scripture at all, they use it to find loopholes that justify their own actions. A case in point is the next few verses:



26For this cause God gave them up to their own vile affections: for even the women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:



27And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust toward another: men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves the recompense of their error which was meet.





I won't say much about homosexuality here, except that homosexuals don't think that these verses apply to them. I would ask them to examine whether or not they recognize themselves at any of the other signposts. It is not my position to judge a person. That's God's business. It is everyone's responsibility toward God to see if their lives line up with His purpose.



28And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient,





This verse frightens me, because it is this last and tenth signpost that is a blatant indicator of where our society has gone. The public school system no longer retains any knowledge of God in their curriculum, and teaches evolution as fact. Our government refuses to acknowledge God as the source of law. The result is in these areas where we have refused to take a stand for what the truth is, our society has fallen into corruption. The results are indicated in the next verses:



29Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness, full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity, whisperers,



30Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,



31Without understanding, covenant breakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful;



32Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.





Do we see these results in our society? In our home? In our schools? In our workplace? In our government? The answer to this is obvious. For a generation we have removed the knowledge of God from our schools, and used the phony excuse of "the separation of church and state" to do it. I believe the results are devastating upon our society.



How do we reverse direction on this reprobate road? Those who are Christians need to raise the standard of Christianity and not hide in the closet. Paul said, "I am not ashamed of the Gospel of Christ." Are you?



Do you believe that God is your Creator, that He has made you for a purpose, and that He has a plan for your life? If you believe that, are you committed to following His direction?



Do you glorify God and thank him for what he has done for you? Do you appreciate Him, and have you established a continual relationship with Him? The key to preventing a slippery slide down the slope toward a reprobate mind is here. Some people have questioned whether a person who God gives over to the reprobate mind is incapable of a reversal. I don't know, but my experience is that hundreds of people who find themselves at every one of the signposts on the reprobate road have immediately reversed the direction of their lives at Mount Hope Church, and are now experiencing the fullness of the Christian life. The only way our society can be changed is one by one, person by person. And that is my challenge to you.

How do you know that you're not mistaken? How do you know that Christ actually did rise from the dead? The description of people that Paul gives actually doesn't fit the discription of most people I've met who aren't Christians. Many are decent people who grow morally and do good things. They're not perfect, but most of them wouldn't deserve to spend a night in jail - never mind eternity in hell. Isn't this a terrible way to look at people unless you're sure it's absolutely true? I was a born again Christian for close to 20 years. I'm almost 40 now. Fortunately, I woke up. Sometimes I think I'm not ashamed enough of the gospel of Christ though. How could I have believed such nonsense? Such dehumanizing primitive nonsense. Seriously though, how do you think you know?

Why the Gods Are Not Winning

by Edge, Gregory Paul & Phil Zuckerman

Thanks to Ranjani for the link.



Reposted from:

http://www.edge.org/3rd_culture/paul07/paul07_index.html



A myth is gaining ground. The myth seems plausible enough. The proposition is that after God died in the secular 20th century, He is back in a big way as people around the world again find faith. In 2006 Foreign Policy ran two articles that made similar, yet distinctive claims. In the spring Phillip Longman's "The Return of the Patriarchy" contended that secular folk are reproducing themselves, or failing to reproduce themselves, out of existence as the believers swiftly reproduce via a "process similar to survival of the fittest." In the summer FP followed up with "Why God is Winning" by Samuel Shah and Monica Duffy Toft, who pronounced that the Big Three— Christianity, Islam and Hinduism—are back on the global march as secularism fades into irrelevance. In the fall Foreign Affairs joined the chorus when Walter Russell Mead's God's Country? gave the impression that conservative theism continues to rise in a United States jolted back to the spiritual by 9/11. In American Fascists Chris Hedges warns that hard-core Dominionists are accumulating the power to convert the nation into a fundamentalist theocracy.



The actual situation, as is usual in human affairs, much more complex and nuanced, and therefore much more fascinating. Let's start by considering the analytical superficiality that mars the twin articles in Foreign Policy. While Longman proposes that rapid reproduction is the primary agent behind the resurgence of patriarchal faith, Shah and Toft think it is mainly a matter democratic choice in which younger generations reject their parent's secularism. In reality all these claims are well off base. Religion is in serious trouble. The status of faith is especially dire in the west, where the churches face an unprecedented crisis that threatens the existence of organized faith as a viable entity, and there is surprisingly little that can be done to change the circumstances.



Shah and Toft cite the World Christian Encyclopedia as supporting a planetary revival because its shows that "at the beginning of the 21st century, a greater portion of the world's population adhered to [Christianity, Islam and Hinduism] in 2000 than a century earlier." They point to a table in the WCE that shows that the largest Christian and largest nonChristian faiths, Catholicism, Protestantism, Islam and Hinduism, rose from half to nearly two thirds of the world in the 1900s. But that it is a peculiar choice of sects. If every Mohammedan and Hindu sect large and small is tallied, shouldn't every Orthodox, Coptic and so on be too? Another look at the WCE table shows that all Christians, Muslims and Hindus combined edging up a much more modest 60 to 66% (but see below correction) since the reign of Queen Victoria.



What scheme of thought did soar in the 20th century? Although Shah and Toft cite the WCE when it appears to aid their thesis, they seem to have missed key passages near the beginning of the work. The evangelical authors of the WCE lament that no Christian "in 1900 expected the massive defections from Christianity that subsequently took place in Western Europe due to secularism…. and in the Americas due to materialism…. The number of nonreligionists…. throughout the 20th century has skyrocketed from 3.2 million in 1900, to 697 million in 1970, and on to 918 million in AD 2000…. Equally startling has been the meteoritic growth of secularism…. Two immense quasi-religious systems have emerged at the expense of the world's religions: agnosticism…. and atheism…. From a miniscule presence in 1900, a mere 0.2% of the globe, these systems…. are today expanding at the extraordinary rate of 8.5 million new converts each year, and are likely to reach one billion adherents soon. A large percentage of their members are the children, grandchildren or the great-great-grandchildren of persons who in their lifetimes were practicing Christians" (italics added). (The WCE probably understates today's nonreligious. They have Christians constituting 68-94% of nations where surveys indicate that a quarter to half or more are not religious, and they may overestimate Chinese Christians by a factor of two. In that case the nonreligious probably soared past the billion mark already, and the three great faiths total 64% at most.)



Far from providing unambiguous evidence of the rise of faith, the devout compliers of the WCE document what they characterize as the spectacular ballooning of secularism by a few hundred-fold! It has no historical match. It dwarfs the widely heralded Mormon climb to 12 million during the same time, even the growth within Protestantism of Pentecostals from nearly nothing to half a billion does not equal it.



Yet Longman, and especially Shah and Toft, left readers with the impression that Christianity, Islam and Hinduism are each regaining the international initiative against secularism. Again we can turn to the WCE, whose results are presented in the pie charts (with the above adjustment, and with the proviso that the stats are inevitably approximations).



graph



Since 1900 Christians have made up about a third of the global population, and are edging downwards. No growth there. Hindus are coasting at a seventh the total, no significant increase there either even though India adds more people each year than any other nation. The WCE predicts no proportional increase for these faiths by 2050. The flourishing revival of two megareligions whether by democracy, edification, or fecundity is therefore a mirage. Having shrunk by a quarter in the 20th century, Buddhism is predicted to shrink almost as much over the next half century. Once rivaling Christianity, paganism – whether it be ancient or modern as per New Ageism and Scientology — has over all contracted by well over half and is expected to continue to dwindle.



One Great Faith has risen from one eighth to one fifth of the globe in a hundred years, and is projected to rise to one quarter by 2050. Islam. But education and the vote have little to do with it. Generally impoverished and poorly educated, most Muslims live in nations where democracy is minimalist or absent. Nor are many infidels converting to Allah. Longman was correct on one point; Islam is growing because Muslims are literally having lots of unprotected sex. The absence of a grand revival of Christ, Allah and Vishnu worship via democratic free choice brings us to a point, as important as it is little appreciated — the chronic inability of religion to recruit new adherents on a consistent, global basis.



It is well documented that Christianity has withered dramatically in Europe, Canada, Australia, New Zealand and Japan. The failure of the faith in the west is regularly denounced by Popes and Protestant leaders. Churches are being converted into libraries, laundromats and pubs. Those who disbelieve in deities typically make up large portions of the population, according to some surveys they make up the majority of citizens in Scandinavia, France and Japan. Evolution is accepted by the majority in all secular nations, up to four in five in some.



In his paper "Christianity in Britain, R. I. P." Steve Bruce explains that the recent rise of pagans is not nearly sufficiently to make up for the implosion of the churches, which are in danger of dwindling past the demographic and organizational point of no return. A commission of the Church of England agreed, proposing that little attended Sabbath services be dropped, and concluding that the advent of modern life<myspace>style</myspace>s "coincides with the demise of Christendom." The church commissioned Making Sense of Generation Y study advised the clergy to "avoid panic." Perhaps that response would be appropriate considering the absence of quantitative evidence of a significant Christian revival in any secularized democracy. God belief is not dead in these nonreligious democracies, but it is on life support. The ardent hopes of C. S. Lewis and John Paul II to reChristianize Europe have abjectly failed.



EuroMuslims may become a theological plurality by outnumbering active Christians in a few decades, but that does not mean much in the context of a shrinking Christian minority. In most western nations Muslims are less than one percent to under three. The only exceptions are the Netherlands at five percent, and France at ten, and the native French have the highest birth rate in western Europe.



The mass loss of popular faith in the Eurocultures is often waved away as an isolated aberration in a world still infatuated with the gods. After all, who cares what the "old Europe" of France and Sweden is up to? This is a big mistake. Such a thing has never been seen before in history. And where it has happened is critical to the future of faith. Aside from constituting proof of principle that religion is dangerously vulnerable to modernity, that secularism and disbelief do best in nations that are the most democratic, educated and prosperous directly falsifies the Shah and Toft thesis that these factors are the allies of religiosity.



But hasn't the loss of faith in old Europe been matched by a great revival in new Europe? In his account of his voyage along the Siberian Lena River, Jeffrey Taylor in River of No Reprieve observed that the locals remain atheistic, and the religious minority seems more nationalistic than devout. This premise is applicable to former KGV officer Putin's embrace of the Russian Orthodox church, which had tight connections with the Czarist secret police. Just a quarter of Russians absolutely believe in God, the portion who say that religion is important in their lives are down in the teens, and irreligion may be continuing to rise in very atheistic eastern Germany and the Czech Republic. Even in Poland, the one eastern bloc nation in which religion played an important role in overturning atheistic communism, just one third consider religion to be very important in their lives, and faith is declining towards the old European norm. It turns out that the "new" Europe is not turning out particularly godly.



The Central Kingdom has never been especially religious, became atheistic under communism, and is striving for world dominance via materialistic consumerism. The finding by the Shanghai university poll that religious Chinese lifted from 100 million in the 1960s to 300 million resulted in headlines along the lines of "Poll Finds Surge of Religion Among Chinese." But the 300 million figure is far below the 600 million religious estimated by the World Christian Encyclopedia, and is less than a third of the adult population. Nor should monotheists be particularly comforted. The survey uncovered 40 million Christians, about half the inflated estimate in the WCE, and just 4% of the adult population. Most religious Chinese are Buddhists and Taoists, or worship the likes of the God of Fortune, the Black Dragon and the Dragon King. By the way, The Economist says women are using religion as a way to battle traditional Chinese patriarchy. If the survey is correct that over two thirds of Chinese are not religious then they may approach a billion in China alone, expanding the global total even further.



Mass devotion remains strong in most of the 2nd and 3rd world, but even there there is theistic concern. South of our border a quarter to over half the population describe religion as only somewhat important in their lives. Rather than becoming more patriarchal as democracy and education expand, Mexico is liberalizing as progressive forces successfully push laws favoring abortion and gay rights to the vexation of the Roman and evangelical churches. There is even trouble for Islam in its own realm. A third of Turks think religion is not highly important in their lives, and Iranian urban youth have been highly secularized in reaction to the inept corruption of the Mullahs. In Asia 40% of the citizens of booming South Korea don't believe in God, and only a quarter (most evangelical Christians) identify themselves as strongly religious.



Doesn't America, the one western nation where two thirds absolutely believe in God, and nine in ten think there is some form of higher power, show that religion can thrive in an advanced democracy? Not necessarily.



A decade and a half of sampling finds conservative (thought to be about two thirds to four fifths of the total of) evangelicals and born-agains consistently stuck between a quarter and a third of the population. The majority that considers religion very important in their lives dropped from over two thirds in the 1960s to a bare majority in 1970s and 1980s, and appeared to edge up in the Clinton era. But instead of rising post 9/11 as many predicted, it is slipping again.



Those who feel the opposite about religion doubled between the 1960s and 1970s, have been fairly stable since then, but have been edging up in recent years. American opinion on the issue of human evolution from animals has been rock steady, about half agreeing, about half disagreeing, for a quarter century. What has changed is how people view the Bible. In the 1970s nearly four in ten took the testaments literally, just a little over one in ten thought it was a mixture of history, fables, and legends, a three to one ratio in favor of the Biblical view. Since then a persistent trend has seen literalism decline to between a quarter and a third of the population, and skeptics have doubled to nearly one in five. If the trend continues the fableists will equal and then surpass the literalists in a couple of decades.



graph2



Even the megachurch phenomenon is illusory. A spiritual cross of sports stadiums with theme parks, hi-tech churches are a desperate effort to pull in and satisfy a mass-media jaded audience for whom the old sit in the pews and listen to the standard sermon and sing some old time hymns does not cut it anymore. Rather than boosting church membership, megachurches are merely consolidating it.



From a high of three quarters of the population in the 1930s to 1960s, a gradual, persistent decline has set in, leaving some clerics distressed at the growing abandonment of small churches as the big ones gobble up what is left of the rest. Weekly religious service attendance rose only briefly in the months after 9/11—evidence that the event failed to stem national secularization – and then lost ground as the Catholic sex scandal damaged church credibility. As few as one in four or five Americans are actually in church on a typical Sunday, only a few percent of them in megachurches.<br>


In his Foreign Affairs article Mead noted that conservative Southern Baptists constitute the largest church in the states, and they are among the most evangelical. Mead did not note that a Southern Baptist church release laments that "evangelistically, the denomination is on a path of slow but discernable deterioration." The greatest born again sect is baptizing members at the same absolute yearly rate as they did half a century ago, when the population was half as large, and in the last few years the overall trend has been downwards.



Rather than Amerofaith becoming deeply patriarchal as Longman thinks, it is increasingly feminine. Women church goers greatly outnumber men, who find church too dull. Here's the kicker. Children tend to pick up their beliefs from their fathers. So, despite a vibrant evangelical youth cohort, young Americans taken as a whole are the least religious and most culturally tolerant age group in the nation.



One group has experienced rapid growth. In the 1940s and 50s 1-2% usually responded no asked if they believe in God, up to 98% said yes. A Harris study specifically designed to arrive at the best current figure found that 9% do not believe in a creator, and 12% are not sure. The over tenfold expansion of Amerorationalism easily outpaces the Mormon and Pentecostal growth rates over the same half century.



America's disbelievers atheists now number 30 million, most well educated and higher income, and they far outnumber American Jews, Muslims and Mormons combined. There are many more disbelievers than Southern Baptists, and the god skeptics are getting more recruits than the evangelicals.



The rise of American rationalism is based on adult choice—secularists certainly not growing via rapid reproduction. The results can be seen on the bookshelves, as aggressively atheistic books such as Sam Harris' The End of Faith and Letter to a Christian Nation, Richard Dawkins' The God Delusion, and Daniel C. Dennett's Breaking the Spell, break the mainstream publishing barrier onto the best-sellers lists. Long disparaged as neither moral or American, the growing community is beginning to assert itself as a socio-political force.





What is actually happening here and abroad is a great polarization as increasingly anxious and often desperate hard-core believers mount a vigorous counterrevolution via extreme levels of activism to the first emergence of mass apostasy in history. No major religion is expanding its share of the global population by conversion in any circumstances, much less educated democracy. Disbelief in the supernatural alone is able to achieve extraordinary rates of growth by voluntary conversion. Why?



It is to be expected that in 2nd and 3rd world nations where wealth is concentrated among an elite few and the masses are impoverished that the great majority cling to the reassurance of faith.



Nor is it all that surprising that faith has imploded in most of the west. Every single 1st world nation that is irreligious shares a set of distinctive attributes. These include handgun control, anti-corporal punishment and anti-bullying policies, rehabilitative rather than punitive incarceration, intensive sex education that empha<myspace>size</myspace>s condom use, reduced socio-economic disparity via tax and welfare systems combined with comprehensive health care, increased leisure time that can be dedicated to family needs and stress reduction, and so forth.



As a result the great majority enjoy long, safe, comfortable, middle class lives that they can be confident will not be lost due to factors beyond their control. It is hard to lose one's middle class status in Europe, Canada and so forth, and modern medicine is always accessible regardless of income. Nor do these egalitarians culture empha<myspace>size</myspace> the attainment of immense wealth and luxury, so most folks are reasonably satisfied with what they have got. Such circumstances dramatically reduces peoples' need to believe in supernatural forces that protect them from life's calamities, help them get what they don't have, or at least make up for them with the ultimate Club Med of heaven. One of us (Zuckerman) interviewed secular Europeans and verified that the process of secularization is casual; most hardly think about the issue of God, not finding the concept relevant to their contented lives.



The result is plain to see. Not a single advanced democracy that enjoys benign, progressive socio-economic conditions retains a high level of popular religiosity. They all go material.



It is the great anomaly, the United States, that has long perplexed sociologists. America has a large, well educated middle class that lives in comfort—so why do they still believe in a supernatural creator? Because they are afraid and insecure. Arbitrary dismissal from a long held job, loss of health insurance followed by an extended illness, excessive debt due to the struggle to live like the wealthy; before you know it a typical American family can find itself financially ruined. Overwhelming medical bills are a leading cause of bankruptcy.



In part to try to accumulate the wealth needed to try to prevent financial catastrophe, in part to compete in a culture of growing economic disparity with the super rich, the typical American is engaged in a Darwinian, keeping up with the Jones competition in which failure to perform to expectations further raises levels of psychological stress. It is not, therefore, surprising that most look to friendly forces from the beyond to protect them from the pitfalls of a risky American life, and if that fails compensate with a blissful eternal existence.



The effect can be more direct. For instance, the absence of universal health care encourages the utilization of faith-based medical charities. The latter, as well intentioned as they are, cannot provide the comprehensive health services that best suppress mortality at all ages. But charities extend the reach of the churches into the secular community, enhancing their ability to influence society and politics, and retain and recruit members.



Rather than religion being an integral part of the American character, the main reason the United States is the only prosperous democracy that retains a high level of religious belief and activity is because we have substandard socio-economic conditions and the highest level of disparity. The other factors widely thought to be driving forces behind mass faith—desire for the social links provided by churches, fear of societal amorality, fear of death, genetic predisposition towards religiosity, etc—are not critical simply because hundreds of millions have freely accepted being nonreligious mortals in a dozen and a half democracies. Such motives and factors can be operative only if socio-economic circumstances are sufficiently poor to sustain mass creationism and religion.



So much for the common belief that supernatural-based religiosity is the default mode inherent to the human condition. What about the hypothesis that has gained wide currency, that competition between the plethora of churches spawned by the separation of church and state is responsible for America's highly religious population? Australia and New Zealand copied the American separation between church and state in their constitutions, yet they are much more irreligious. Meanwhile the most religious advanced democracies in Europe are those where the Catholic church is, or was, dominant.



To put it starkly, the level of popular religion is not a spiritual matter, it is actually the result of social, political and especially economic conditions (please note we are discussing large scale, long term population trends, not individual cases). Mass rejection of the gods invariably blossoms in the context of the equally distributed prosperity and education found in almost all 1st world democracies. There are no exceptions on a national basis. That is why only disbelief has proven able to grow via democratic conversion in the benign environment of education and egalitarian prosperity. Mass faith prospers solely in the context of the comparatively primitive social, economic and educational disparities and poverty still characteristic of the 2nd and 3rd worlds and the US.



We can also explain why America is has become increasingly at odds with itself. On one hand the growing level of socio-economic disparity that is leaving an increasing portion of the population behind in the socially Darwinian rat-race is boosting levels of hard-line religiosity in the lower classes. On the other hand freedom from belief in the supernatural is rising among the growing segment that enjoys higher incomes and sophisticated education. Bill Gates, Warren Buffet, Ted Turner, Richard Branson and Rupert Murdoch are typical upper crust disbelievers.



The practical implications are equally breath taking. Every time a nation becomes truly advanced in terms of democratic, egalitarian education and prosperity it loses the faith. It's guaranteed. That is why perceptive theists are justifiably scared. In practical terms their only practical hope is for nations to continue to suffer from socio-economic disparity, poverty and maleducation. That strategy is, of course, neither credible nor desirable. And that is why the secular community should be more encouraged.





Skepticism of the transcendent has not swept the planet with the completeness expected by some in the 20th century. Doing so would have required the conversion to atheism of an unattainable 50 million people a year in a world where the great majority chronically lack the high level of science-oriented education, secure prosperity, and democracy that spontaneous disbelief depends upon. The expectation of global atheism was correspondingly naïve, and will remain so as billions live in, or fear living in, substandard conditions. Which should not comfort theists. Even so, theists are equally naïve when they dream that faith can retake the entire world.



Disbelief now rivals the great faiths in numbers and influence. Never before has religion faced such enormous levels of disbelief, or faced a hazard as powerful as that posed by modernity. How is organized religion going to regain the true, choice-based initiative when only one of them is growing, and it is doing so with reproductive activity rather than by convincing the masses to join in, when no major faith is proving able to grow as they break out of their ancestral lands via mass conversion, and when securely prosperous democracies appear immune to mass devotion? The religious industry simply lacks a reliable stratagem for defeating disbelief in the 21st century.



Even though liberal, pro-evolution religions are not at fault for unacceptable social policies, organized faith cannot reform itself by supporting successful secular social arrangements because these actions inadvertently suppress popular religiosity. They are caught in a classic Catch-22. And liberal churches are even less able to thrive in advanced democracies than are their more conservative counterparts, so if churches, temples and mosques become matriarchal by socio-politically liberalizing they risk secularizing themselves into further insignificance.



In Commonweal Peter Quinn contends that Stephen Gould, Richard Dawkins, Daniel Dennett and Sam Harris have sanitized the social philosophy of Charles Darwin, which was not sufficiently kindly and tolerant to produce "the sole and true foundation for a humanistic society, free of the primitive and dangerous irrationality of religious belief."



Aside from the above nontheists never having promoted Darwin's personal world-view as the sole fountain of societal goodness, Quinn is making the even bigger mistake—the same mistake nearly everyone is making—of believing that the contest between popular faith and secularism is an epic struggle of ideas that then determines the quality of societies. But the level and nature of popular faith is really set by economic conditions, and only secular egalitarian prosperous democracies that reject extreme social Darwinism can produce the best practical conditions.



Assuming America continues to secularize towards the 1st world norm then what can we expect? The decline in faith-based conservative ideology is predicted to allow the country to adopt the progressive policies that have been proven to work in the rest of the west, and vice-versa. Even Wal-Mart has come out in favor of universal medical coverage as bottom-line busting health care expenditures compel the corporations to turn towards the system that has done so much harm to the churches of Europe. If and when religion declines in the states Darwin's science will automatically benefit enormously as it has in ungodly Europe, but Darwinistic social policies will not fare as well as they have in Christian America.



In the end what humanity chooses to believe will be more a matter of economics than of debate, deliberately considered choice, or reproduction. The more national societies that provide financial and physical security to the population, the fewer that will be religiously devout. The more that cannot provide their citizens with these high standards the more that will hope that supernatural forces will alleviate their anxieties. It is probable that there is little that can be done by either side to alter this fundamental pattern.



GREGORY PAUL is an independent researcher on subjects dealing with paleontology, evolution, religion and society. Books include Predatory Dinosaurs of the World and Dinosaurs of the Air.



PHIL ZUCKERMAN is a sociologist at Pitzer, and the author of Invitation to the Sociology of Religion, Du Bois on Religion, and Sex and Religion.

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I am at fort drum and soon fort hood...





...oh you met a different kind of post sorry :P

Tiffany wrote:

An ad for Mt. Hope Church

as long as we are copy/pasting-- figured I'd answer this here as well as the other thread you copy/pasted it in. My answer is as follows:



You know, Tiffany, I don't think I am at any of them. I used to think of myself as a Christian. While I am not ashamed of my beliefs- (They are stated in my blog on a public forum) I don't think that calling ones self "Christian" means that you follow Christ anymore. The label of Christian these days, seems to bring up images of biggotry, hypocracy, and self righteousness. Back in the day, when I invited Christ into my life, (probably before you were even born) That was a label I was proud to carry. The problem now is, that I have a mind of my own, and most "Christians" like you, cant accept that. I am an intelligent being, and can interpret the writings for myself. I am bright enough to use my own words, rather than resorting to plagiarism to explain what I believe.



Does that answer your question?

Hi! (Hello, and salutations!) We're the regulars (i.e. regurlarly recurring posters) of the Religion and Philosophy forum and/or forums (depending on one's persepctive), also referred to as the R&P; and we are deeply, personally, greatly, and astoundingly annoyed, frustrated, and even amused, by your random, pointless, wall-of-text attack. You, the OP, or Original Poster, of this thread, might be confused as to what, exactly, constitutes a "wall-of-text attack." And we, the regular posters of the Religion and Philosophy forums, wish to help you in your endeavor to understand exactly what it means to display such an ugly, pathetic, and offensive attack to our senses (read: it makes our eyes bleed). According to Urban Dictionary, which can be found at the URL or web address of www.urbandictionary.com, the definition listed for "wall of text" states that it is such: A piece of writing that does not use proper grammar and generally looks like a giant essay with 20 to 400 sentences without using paragraphs or any bit of spacing at all. The example, which is quite a good example we might add, looks like this: John writes: i am good in english, i try my best in doing what i do what i think is best and that im pretty intelligent when it comes to doing this. to be honest its not that hard but i find it easier for me to just write it like this, and i hope it can be easy for people to read this too. i like writing about stuff. i like chicken. i like food. i like eating. eating is great. blah blah blah blah blah. i am awesome. i am cool. i believe im awesome and cool. isnt that awesome and cool????? Essentially the wall of text consists of taking a single line rebuttal and turning it into a minimum of 50 lines. The more, the better. The text is laid out in a single block, with no arrangement at all, making for a read like trudging trough a swampy labyrinth. While most Walls of text contain little real material, some do surprisingly contain an actual discussion; those that do contain material are even more effecient as the enemy tries to figure out the actual meaning of the Wall of text. These, however, are quite rare, and yours, dear OP (Original Poster), is not one of them; hence this reply. We reply in such an unsightly, vulgar-to-the-eyes manner in hope that you better understand our position, and why we dislike your original post so much. It is our hope, that in this lengthy, overly verbose, tiring reply that you understand the subtle hint we are throwing your way: DON'T FUCKING POST A WALL OF TEXT KTHXBI. In other words: BLOG IT. We essentially don't give a fuck what you have to say, when you post such an eye-horrendous trainwreck of nonsense and fagation. You, sir or misses, are an imbecile, and do not belong on the internets. Please vacate the Religion and Philosophy forums, or learn to have a deeper respect for those who might try to read what you have to say. Learn to discuss things, not attack us with lengthy, useless text. That said, we leave you with individual responses left by the community of R&P at large:



In every imaginable and possible meaning found in this sentence, you are unworthy of discussion here at R&P; go home. TITS or gtfo. You really should study English and grammar for ten years before you come back, and...word to the wise...study some religion, too. Although I, SOL, do not say this as a pleasant respite from myself, nor would I consider my statements here to possess the effectiveness of penetrating the unseasoned or unprepared mind which has expressed the blasphemous terseness I would have hoped to not have encountered in this our beloved forum, I must say that appreciation for space is crucial in modern society, what with all its preference for density and the like, and I cannot recommend this appreciation to you enough, and urge you to see within this illumined aesthetic the qualities which you may engender for all your further posting here with us. I even read the first 10 lines of that. Blah blah blah...blah blah blah blah? FUCK NORWAY, FUCK DENMARK, FUCK TURKEY, AND FUCK ÅLAND! ....like those who buttress their teaching by quotation from the Scriptures and Tradition, babbling divine Words with their lips only ... You lost me right after the second letter after... I forgot... o.O Were you born worthless, or did you have to work at it? I am sooooooo sick of teh idiots in here posting shit about jebus lubs me and you and if you don't beleif it ur going to hell cuz jesus loves you and he loves seeing athiests burn in hell cuz they always are talking shit about us and crap like that, just who do they high and mighty bastards think they are posting this shit, it just makes me so freaking crazy. Wicca is a 60 year old religion which means that intelligent design and creationism are no sciences therefore atheism is not a religion while Buddhism is a philosophy and homosexuals do not choose to be gay however, Celts are polytheists and Catholics are not but watch out for that phallus pole because Aristotle said the "unexamined life is not worth living" meaning that you cannot prove whether god does or does not exist but I do know that pi=e=mcsquared and atheists eat babies. JQ, this one's for you. I'd like to say that your post disgusts me on every level conceivable, but this would not be true; I have not taken the time to read your post, nor have I any inclination to do so, as I consider it to be a grave waste of my time and it appears to be a load of rambling bullshit anyways- and there is nothing wrong with fighting some fires with gasoline. The beast that is society comes at an individual and rips him limb from limb, devouring all that makes him him and leaving behind an unidentifiable carcass, an empty shell, and the only way one can avoid this beast is to isolate oneself from the world, but then how can man do this and avoid the beast and still participate in the great conversation that radiates through time and across the universe, incorporating all the great minds that ever were, and so how can one become a part of this and not be shot down by the great mystical beast, society, and yet I know as I have found this truth myself and so this one truth and one way that can connect one to the greater purpose and the greater conversation is alone in its path and it is through isolation and thought and reading and writing that I create a piece and publish a work that acts as my voice in this great conversation that is the life to life’s death, the beast, and is purpose and way and creation to creation’s destruction and destruction’s beast and is god to god’s devil and the devil’s beast and is so there the savior immortal to immortal’s deceiver mortal and the mortal’s beast and so man to man’s opposite and the opposite so being the beast and so all is led and the path is deep and man is differentiated from beast. Excellent, more masturbatory "for the reg" elitist bullshit from a handful of people here who pathetically behave as if the forum were theirs and clap each other on the backs almost continuously for no better reason than mutual participation in a purported golden age of Myspace forum circle jerks, as documented in "the wiki" (itself being composed almost entirely of smarmy, self-congratulatory kiss-ass and detailed accounts of events which were oppressively boring at the time they occurred). You are all malformed animals. I have read your post and, admittedly only the first sentence in it and frankly I don't give a damn wether or not you made a point or two, or three plus because I simply don't think you should continue to breathe the air that the rest of us require in order to live and that you should instead be shot and left for dead in the middle of a pit full of ravenous wolverines that have been hopped up on crack or some other incredibly potent stimulant that would drive them to the point of frothing at the mouth due to complete and total nuerological breackdown and psychosis and after you were mauled horribly by those monsters and somehow survived I would then have you gangraped by every single inmate of a prison while they were wearing iron wool condoms and ran red hot cheese graters across your flesh in a quick and vigorous rapid motion until they managed to peel down to the bone and at that point I would inject parasitic fungal spores directly into your brain and allow them to consume you and drive you to the final breaking point of mental stability until they finaly broke through your skull as they bloomed and then exploded in a spore cloud of bone, gore, and blood. pussy. Check out my film profile at www.myspace.com/crybabyconspiracies. Like, whoa, what the hell? DA MAGIC PIXEE WENT FOOOOOOSH GABLAGOOBALA AND THEN IT WENT GRAAAAAHHHHH UNTIL IT WAS HAPPY EVER AFTEr... THE END. It has be brought to my attention that I am to inform you of the douche-baggery entailed in making monolithic, huge, large, and otherwise just messy OPs (Original post/poster), as they are like rape, yes indeed, rape, to the eyes of the individual who is processing the concepts presented by the words and letters articulated. regardless of the verbal abuse and the constant mockery that made by the regulars, which you may or may not get offended off, and despite your failure to follow the rules and regulation of the forum, though it had been pinned and well clarified in simple English , I, shadow king or you can call me as SK, would humbly welcome you to the r&p forum, the abode of those who has plenty of minds to speak and opinions, and even I have millions of 2 cents to throw with the best wish that I will conclude through this simple rhyme of "may your journey be cool and dry and your stay will be warm and friendly, and may your wit be cool and dry and women/men be warm and friendly". unless you are willing to read all of this, you could not possibly begin to fathom the breadth and the depth of my disgust with which i am filled every time i see one of these indelibly crafted examples of circumlocution bent and intent on filling every possible space of page (save for the space between the very words) without presupposing that there is anyone who is even remotely close to being in their right mind enough to actually read every last example defining that which would have been better served by the simple use of periods, commas, colons, semicolons, hyphens, quotation marks, italics, font dimensions and colors; because anyone who has ever read an entire wall-of-text has to know that the writer must have been very stoned or maybe failed english several times and anyway they only do it to make certain that whoever is bold enough to go ahead and read every single line is going to respond by begging for ten minutes of their life back, although i think they're just getting revenge for believing all the hype which surrounded napolean dynamite and now they want that two hours back and because time spent is time wasted it only goes to show you how petty and vindictive they are and that's being kind because the only plausible alternative is that they completely lack any semblance of intelligence or wit and this is a very well-known phenomenon which can quite easily be discerned by an intelligent reader who is willing to take into due consideration the meritorious claims of the OP.

rob wrote:







Well I'm sorry to hear that you turned from the faith. However, the gospel when you really study it makes perfect sense. I personally believe the testimonies of each and every one of the witnesses in the bible. The word is to powerful and it just comes together in such a way that forms a perfect picture. Not only that, but I have personally experinced some of the very same things that the diciples of Christ have experinced (Miracles, signs and wonders). So it's settled in my mind.



No man is perfect so no man will ever reach God's standerd of perfection on his own! That's why it's through grace that people are saved. He offers every man the oppurtunity to be made over and to dwell with him. He warns of of both destinations (heaven and Hell) and his desire is for all men to repent and be saved. He Has made a way of escape though. The question isn't whether or not your good (becuase no man is) the question is, do you believe on his son Jesus?

What do you mean that the word is "powerful"? Does it create strong feelings of conviction and faith? How do you know that makes it true? People in other religions also have scriptures and they feel their scriptures are strong and powerful.



What did you actually experience as far as signs, wonders, and miracles?

Mike wrote:

How do you know that you're not mistaken? How do you know that Christ actually did rise from the dead? The description of people that Paul gives actually doesn't fit the discription of most people I've met who aren't Christians. Many are decent people who grow morally and do good things. They're not perfect, but most of them wouldn't deserve to spend a night in jail - never mind eternity in hell. Isn't this a terrible way to look at people unless you're sure it's absolutely true? I was a born again Christian for close to 20 years. I'm almost 40 now. Fortunately, I woke up. Sometimes I think I'm not ashamed enough of the gospel of Christ though. How could I have believed such nonsense? Such dehumanizing primitive nonsense. Seriously though, how do you think you know?

because he lives in me now, he shows me how much he really loves me and others by forgiving me for my sins and washing them away with is blood. And how important it is to not believe the lies of this world and to truley trust in him only, I love Jesus, he has healed my son of adhd, I believed it I received I thanked Jesus for by his stripes we were healed past tense you see. And I will declare his truth and declare Jesus for his wonderful love he gives us, Too many things happen that the bible says will happen, pride is really quite a strong hold, but like I said I dont believe that even a reprobate mind can keep Jesus from restoring you and making you whole, but it does take wisdom of the word Of God and beleiving Jesus really loves you which he does and just trusting him to show you in your spirit just as he has done for me and others that proclaim his name.

Mama Luna wrote:

Tiffany wrote:

An ad for Mt. Hope Church

as long as we are copy/pasting-- figured I'd answer this here as well as the other thread you copy/pasted it in. My answer is as follows:



You know, Tiffany, I don't think I am at any of them. I used to think of myself as a Christian. While I am not ashamed of my beliefs- (They are stated in my blog on a public forum) I don't think that calling ones self "Christian" means that you follow Christ anymore. The label of Christian these days, seems to bring up images of biggotry, hypocracy, and self righteousness. Back in the day, when I invited Christ into my life, (probably before you were even born) That was a label I was proud to carry. The problem now is, that I have a mind of my own, and most "Christians" like you, cant accept that. I am an intelligent being, and can interpret the writings for myself. I am bright enough to use my own words, rather than resorting to plagiarism to explain what I believe.



Does that answer your question?

Im sorry you have such a problem with me. I am not what matters only Jesus does and our true salvation by receiving him that is what the Bible teaches. The truth and God has my path made and I will walk down it, If I go aff course he leads me back to the right path, Gods path for my life is to plant seeds where ever I may go of love and truth of the word of God, Thats what its all about Jesus not us, I am nothing with out him, Only Jesus can save you and I, I have to declare this and do what he tells me in his word and in my spirit, I love My Jesus i will not tell him no. I desire to be more like Jesus I will fight every step of the way and trust in him and him only, I dont know why you disagree with everything I do but I also know what the bible says and I am going to follow it, I didnt follow it before and I was miserable, now that I trust Jesus to give me peace he truley does. Salvation is a gift and I will honor that gift the best I can also showing others how to receive the real gift, Jesus the one from the word of God the bible, you are wrong to deny his word by bringing a reproach to him each and every time I show his love, I will continue to give thanks to Jesus and only him the one who lives in me that died and rose again, the one and only key to the kingdom JESUS

Wendy wrote:

Charise wrote:

I am at fort drum and soon fort hood...





...oh you met a different kind of post sorry :P

I am at Fort Carson. ;p

OH man My hubby and I wanted to go there I have family near by but a lase he couldn't get it.

Wendy wrote:

Charise wrote:

Wendy wrote:

Charise wrote:

I am at fort drum and soon fort hood...





...oh you met a different kind of post sorry :P

I am at Fort Carson. ;p

OH man My hubby and I wanted to go there I have family near by but a lase he couldn't get it.

Be glad he's not. They get deployed A LOT here. Leave for a year, come home for 6 month, gone another year, now they're trying to make it 18 months at a time. I know your man is deployed but I'm just saying Fort Carson guarantees it.

Yeah same with hood from what we hear. He will be home next month though.