This may stimulate conversation.

The following is from Chapter 4 of the definitivie Deist work by Thomas Paine, "Age of Reason":



IT is upon this plain narrative of facts, together with another case I am going to mention, that the Christian mythologists, calling themselves the Christian Church, have erected their fable, which for absurdity and extravagance is not exceeded by anything that is to be found in the mythology of the ancients.



The ancient mythologists tell us that the race of Giants made war against Jupiter, and that one of them threw a hundred rocks against him at one throw; that Jupiter defeated him with thunder, and confined him afterwards under Mount Etna; and that every time the Giant turns himself, Mount Etna belches fire. It is here easy to see that the circumstance of the mountain, that of its being a volcano, suggested the idea of the fable; and that the fable is made to fit and wind itself up with that circumstance.



The Christian mythologists tell that their Satan made war against the Almighty, who defeated him, and confined him afterwards, not under a mountain, but in a pit. It is here easy to see that the first fable suggested the idea of the second; for the fable of Jupiter and the Giants was told many hundred years before that of Satan.



Thus far the ancient and the Christian mythologists differ very little from each other. But the latter have contrived to carry the matter much farther. They have contrived to connect the fabulous part of the story of Jesus Christ with the fable originating from Mount Etna; and, in order to make all the parts of the story tie together, they have taken to their aid the traditions of the Jews; for the Christian mythology is made up partly from the ancient mythology, and partly from the Jewish traditions.



The Christian mythologists, after having confined Satan in a pit, were obliged to let him out again to bring on the sequel of the fable. He is then introduced into the garden of Eden in the shape of a snake, or a serpent, and in that shape he enters into familiar conversation with Eve, who is no ways surprised to hear a snake talk; and the issue of this tete-a-tate is, that he persuades her to eat an apple, and the eating of that apple damns all mankind.



After giving Satan this triumph over the whole creation, one would have supposed that the church mythologists would have been kind enough to send him back again to the pit, or, if they had not done this, that they would have put a mountain upon him, (for they say that their faith can remove a mountain) or have put him under a mountain, as the former mythologists had done, to prevent his getting again among the women, and doing more mischief. But instead of this, they leave him at large, without even obliging him to give his parole. The secret of which is, that they could not do without him; and after being at the trouble of making him, they bribed him to stay. They promised him ALL the Jews, ALL the Turks by anticipation, nine-tenths of the world beside, and Mahomet into the bargain. After this, who can doubt the bountifulness of the Christian Mythology?



Having thus made an insurrection and a battle in heaven, in which none of the combatants could be either killed or wounded --put Satan into the pit--let him out again--given him a triumph over the whole creation--damned all mankind by the eating of an apple, there Christian mythologists bring the two ends of their fable together. They represent this virtuous and amiable man, Jesus Christ, to be at once both God and man, and also the Son of God, celestially begotten, on purpose to be sacrificed, because they say that Eve in her longing [NOTE: The French work has: "yielding to an unrestrained appetite.--Editor.] had eaten an apple.

Ross Wrote:

This may stimulate conversation.

Too long, most people won't want to read it.

Basically, it shows how Christianity is pratically Roman Mythology re-written.

Ross Wrote:

Basically, it shows how Christianity is pratically Roman Mythology re-written.

I disagree, I think it's more then JUST Roman Mythology. However if it's Roman it's a combination of three other cultures (Roman's were great theifs). So... yup.

Scott Wrote:



[t]Ross Wrote:

Basically, it shows how Christianity is pratically Roman Mythology re-written.[/t]





I disagree, I think it's more then JUST Roman Mythology. However if it's Roman it's a combination of three other cultures (Roman's were great theifs). So... yup.

I suggest reading it.

Ross Wrote:



[t]Scott Wrote:



[t]Ross Wrote:

Basically, it shows how Christianity is pratically Roman Mythology re-written.[/t]





I disagree, I think it's more then JUST Roman Mythology. However if it's Roman it's a combination of three other cultures (Roman's were great theifs). So... yup.[/t]





I suggest reading it.

Why didn't they put a mountain on that snake? It's not like God was reading a newspaper and was caught off guard.



Jesus died for Eve eating an apple, how... sick yet hillarious all at the same time.

Scott Wrote:



[t]Ross Wrote:



[t]Scott Wrote:



[t]Ross Wrote:

Basically, it shows how Christianity is pratically Roman Mythology re-written.[/t]





I disagree, I think it's more then JUST Roman Mythology. However if it's Roman it's a combination of three other cultures (Roman's were great theifs). So... yup.[/t]





I suggest reading it.[/t]





Why didn't they put a mountain on that snake? It's not like God was reading a newspaper and was caught off guard.



Jesus died for Eve eating an apple, how... sick yet hillarious all at the same time.

Jesus died to wipe away original sin, God gave man free will, the Devil tempted Eve to eat the apple.



Instead of putting a mountain on the snake (who is supposed to be the Devil in Christian terms I thought), they sent him into hell.

Ross you like to provoke arguement more then conversation from my expierence to this point.



Maybe that is my misunderstanding but your methods tend to be condescending towards Christianity which I guess is your perogative but it might be to your utility to at least attempt to understand the people that you so eagerly mock.



I have attempted on many occasion to discuss with you ....to my horror being mocked and insulted.



It's always been my belief that one of the beauties of this life is that it is truly yours to live so be it Deist, Muslim, Atheist, Buddhist or other by my guest. But I would be sacrificing my own belief to not attempt to explain my verision of Truth to the best of my current knowledge.



So try to disprove Christ all you want. But it really doesn't do any good. All of the arguements have been dissussed extensively. You either are with Him, against Him, or naive to Him.....



IMHO

Well, here's something surprising. Instead of addressing Paine's argument, Iceman acts the straw man, bringing up a new topic. Not only that, but he once again relies on attacking my character, calling me an antagonist.

Ross Wrote:

Well, here's something surprising. Instead of addressing Paine's argument, Iceman acts the straw man, bringing up a new topic. Not only that, but he once again relies on attacking my character, calling me an antagonist.

bingo -- happens every time..



just so you know ross.. you are 100% correct in your statements above..



Iceman.. it is clear to most of us that is in fact YOU who always makes the first insulting remark. And this is about the 4th time i recall seeing you try to completely avoid a topic by changing the subject.



Here's a wager for you.... lets have this discussion on the topic above.. and if you aren't the first person to make a personal slam, I'll go to church next sunday.



cool?

Ross Wrote:



he enters into familiar conversation with Eve, who is no ways surprised to hear a snake talk;

lol.. quite funny really



well, adam did afterall name each and every animal, as the bible says.



Gen 2:19-20

Now the LORD God had formed out of the ground all the beasts of the field and all the birds of the air. He brought them to the man to see what he would name them; and whatever the man called each living creature, that was its name. 20 So the man gave names to all the livestock, the birds of the air and all the beasts of the field.

But for Adam no suitable helper was found. --- hence woman was made *snickers*





now just how long do you suppose it to him to name all the animals?

especially considering that we are still naming them?

i wonder what he named the polar bear and the animals on Australia..



gee... i wonder if this is a myth.... hmmmmm.......

So, because one thing resembles another, the former is the begetter of the latter. Makes perfect sense to me. I don't see why nobody else sees it that way.

Actually Christianity mirrors many different collections of mythology and various relgions. One of the big competers of the time was that of the god Mitharus... one of the big reasons that did not catch on was because they treated women so poorly.

Rostradamus:IT is upon this plain narrative of facts, together with another case I am going to mention, that the Christian mythologists, calling themselves the Christian Church, have erected their fable, which for absurdity and extravagance is not exceeded by anything that is to be found in the mythology of the ancients.

acually it is a faded copy of the ancient's mythology.