A short summary along with a link does much better.

NO Pork on MY Fork Vol. I wrote:

The search for the origins of the Trinity begins with the earliest writings of man. Records of early Mesopotamian and Mediterranean civilizations show polytheistic religions, though many scholars assert that earliest man believed in one god. The 19th century scholar and Protestant minister, Alexander Hislop, devotes several chapters of his book The Two Babylons to showing how this original belief in one god was replaced by the triads of paganism which were eventually absorbed into Catholic Church dogmas. A more recent Egyptologist, Erick Hornung, refutes the original monotheism of Egypt: ‘[Monotheism is] a phenomenon restricted to the wisdom texts, ’ which were written between 2600 and 2530 BC (50-51); but there is no question that ancient man believed in ‘one infinite and Almighty Creator, supreme over all’ (Hislop 14); and in a multitude of gods at a later point. Nor is there any doubt that the most common grouping of gods was a triad.

They were polytheistic meaning they believed in multiple gods, not one.

That was LONG!



It was a good read though.



The only thing that jumps out, and I have to disagree with, is the idea that the Hebrews always believed in one God.



That isn’t so! They were originally pagan, too. Elohiym, which is plural, is almost always translated as God (singular, ) and that is wrong!



The Bible itself says that the people kept turning BACK to their Old Gods.



You obviously can’t “TURN BACK” if they never were!

slactweak wrote:

A short summary along with a link does much better.

hey, slact, like your new logo. agree. great ideas, but to lengthy for the forum. . .sorry.

)O( Inanna )O( wrote:

That was LONG!



It was a good read though.



The only thing that jumps out, and I have to disagree with, is the idea that the Hebrews always believed in one God.



That isn’t so! They were originally pagan, too. Elohiym, which is plural, is almost always translated as God (singular, ) and that is wrong!



The Bible itself says that the people kept turning BACK to their Old Gods.



You obviously can’t “TURN BACK” if they never were!

Strong's Hebrew Dictonary



430. 'elohiym (el-o-heem')





plural of 'elowahh; gods in the ordinary sense; but specifically used (in the plural thus, especially with the article) of the supreme God; occasionally applied by way of deference to magistrates; and sometimes as a superlative



angels, X exceeding, God (gods)(-dess, -ly), X (very) great, judges, X mighty.



see HEBREW 'elowahh



Strong's Hebrew Dictonary



433. 'elowahh (el-o'-ah; rarely (shortened) >eloahh {el-o'-ah)





probably prolonged (emphat.) from 'el; a deity or the Deity



God, god. See 'elohiym.



see HEBREW 'el



see HEBREW 'elohiym





The KJV Old Testament Hebrew Lexicon



Strong's Number: 0430 Browse Lexicon

Original Word Word Origin

<big>~yhla</big> plural of (0433)

Transliterated Word TDNT Entry

<big>'elohiym</big> TWOT - 93c

Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech

el-o-heem' Noun Masculine

Definition



1. (plural)

a. rulers, judges

b. divine ones

c. angels

d. gods

2. (plural intensive - singular meaning)

a. god, goddess

b. godlike one

c. works or special possessions of God

d. the (true) God

e. God



As you can see, the plural intensive - singular meaning puts paid to the notion that Elohiym(sic) always plural.

i'm pretty into the OT at the moment, and this time, by chance, am noticing big differences in the aspects God presents. . . His Angel, His Spirit, etc.



the aspect of the Trinity always kindof bothered me, as a sense of paganism, too. but now i'm approaching it as aspects of God. there is, as was said only one God. i think that, as time has gone on, perhaps too much focus has been given to the highlighting of God's different aspects as being instead totally separate individuals--and, thus, like separate gods.



?????

Iva Bentshaft wrote:

)O( Inanna )O( wrote:



Elohiym, which is plural, is almost always translated as God (singular, ) and that is wrong!

Elohiym is not plural in the sense that you suggest.



It is either Quantitative or Qualitative; depending on how it is used.



It can be many or much.

-Like "many thanks".



It's not always a way to shorten saying "thanks" ten times, but a way to express more thankfulness.



-Or in the case of Elohiym in Genesis, more Grandeur.



Though even if we suppose a quantitative sense, it is possible that it meant to refer to God's many attributes, as opposed to having many "Godpeople".



Though, I agree with the rest of what you offered.

Pagan worship was a part of every culture since the rebuilding after the flood; and even before the flood.

Elohiym, comes from the “Feminine” word “elah, ” meaning tall strong tree. Also connected to “elown/eylown” the Sacred Grove, ayil, a wood pilaster, and – pointedly – the “eylowoth” sacred trees in a sacred grove! Eylowoth/elohim! By way of “eylam” feminine pillars.



Eloahh is a single god.



The Hebrews did originally have a Goddess (of the above Sacred Groves) with their God.



That is why we have Elohiym! And Elohiym create in THEIR image – Male AND Female! Gen 1:26 & 27.



As for Gen. 1, it is also Elohiym, not God!



Bible translation -



Gen. 1:1 – In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

Gen. 1:2 – And the earth was without form and void: and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

Gen. 1:3 – And God said let there be light –etc.



My translation of Genesis 1and 2 might be –



Gen. 1:1 - When the “God & Goddess” came to creation (knowing/being/duality, ) the above, and the below, (opposites)

Gen. 1:2 – And matter was vibrating chaos: And ignorance/obscurity/bliss was the “state” of the deep/empty/abyss/waters of the womb/matrix.

And the MALE principle moved upon the FEMALE principle, the womb/deep –sexual union.

Gen. 1:3 – And “They, ” God & Goddess (Elohiym 430, ) said let there be opposites, day/night, etc (creation in gross matter), .



“ God almighty is our loving Father, and God all wisdom is our loving Mother…..” - Julian of Norwich



Philo (20 B.C. – 50 A.D.) speaking of the cherubim that covered the ark in the Tabernacle - … one cherub was male, the other female, to represent the male and female aspects of God….



READ –



The Hebrew Goddess, by Raphael Patai.



"The Hebrew Goddess demonstrates that the Jewish religion, far from being pure monotheism, contained from earliest times strong polytheistic elements, chief of which was the cult of the mother goddess. Lucidly written and richly illustrated, this third edition contains new chapters of the Shekhina."



Contents of the book.



I. The Goddess Asherah

II. Astarte-Anath

III. The Cherubim

IV. The Shekhina

V. The Kabbalistic Tetrad

VI. Matronit — The Goddess of the Kabbala

VII. The Myth of God and the Shekhina

VIII. Yihudim — Unifications

IX. The Shekhina as Maggid and Vision

X. Lilith

XI. The Sabbath — Virgin, Bride, Queen, and Goddess

Appendix: The Goddess in the Dura Synagogue?



Anything by Professor of Religion Elaine Pagels.



THE DVINE FEMININE, The Biblical Imagery of God as Female,



BY A CHRISTIAN –----- Virginia Ramey Mollenkott.



I did a word study on Crosswalk.com –



Elohiym is plural, God and Goddess, etc. It can mean angels, even magistrates.



This word was translated in the Bible as –



God 2346 times, god 244, judge 5, GOD 1, goddess 2, great 2, mighty 2, angels 1, exceeding 1, God-ward + (04136) 1, godly 1



Interesting that a plural word is translated as god 2591 times and only twice as goddess, and never as multiple gods or goddesses, or God and Goddess.



And of course after they make it into ONE MALE GOD they also change the surrounding words to match (such as "1931" – In this case THEY, becoming HE.)



And as I said above, we know from the Bible itself, that they kept turning BACK to their God and Goddess.

I’m tired of hearing crap about the ONE GOD Hebrews!



So I thought I’d mention SOME of the Gods and Goddesses worshiped by the Hebrews.



These are from the Bible itself. I did not include any outside scholarship!



Asherah/Anath & and her consort El/ Baal, 1 Kings 11:5, 15: 11 & 12, and elsewhere.



Ba’al-ze’bub/Baal, 11 Kings 1: 2-16, 17: 10-17



Ash’toreth, Solomon and his people worshiped her, 1 Kings 11:5, 11 Kings 23:13.



Ba’al-berith – El-berith, “God of the covenant.” Judg. 9:46, 8:33, 9:4.



Ba’al-peor/Chemosh, The Israelites worshiped him on the Plains of Moab. Num. 25: 1-9, Psa. 106: 28, Hos. 9:10.



Chemosh, Solomon set a temple to him in Jerusalem, along with that to Ash’toreth, 1 Kings 11:7.



Bull Worship/Apis, 1 Kings 12: 28-33, and of course the Golden Calf.



Gad, God of Fortune, Isaiah 65:11



Me’ni, God of Destiny, Isaiah 65: 11



Mal’cham/Moloch, 1 Kings 11: 5, 33 – 11 Kings 23:13



Mero’dach, Worshipped by Nebuchadnezzar, Jer. 51: 44



Mo’lech, Solomon built him a temple at Tophet.



Nehush’tan, Serpent God, 11 Kings 18:4



Rephar, Israelites worshiped him in the desert, Acts 7: 43



Satyr/Pan, I put up a whole page on this awhile back. And a Temple of Pan has been uncovered in Israel.



Tam’muz, Women cried for him at the Jerusalem Temple. Ezek. 8: 14, Jer. 22:18, Amos 8: 10, Zech. 12:10



The children gather wood, and the fathers kindle the fire, and the women knead the dough, to make cakes to the queen of heaven, .- Jeremiah 7:18

)O( Inanna )O( wrote:

I’m tired of hearing crap about the ONE GOD Hebrews!



So I thought I’d mention SOME of the Gods and Goddesses worshiped by the Hebrews.



These are from the Bible itself. I did not include any outside scholarship!



Asherah/Anath & and her consort El/ Baal, 1 Kings 11:5, 15: 11 & 12, and elsewhere.



Ba’al-ze’bub/Baal, 11 Kings 1: 2-16, 17: 10-17



Ash’toreth, Solomon and his people worshiped her, 1 Kings 11:5, 11 Kings 23:13.



Ba’al-berith – El-berith, “God of the covenant.” Judg. 9:46, 8:33, 9:4.



Ba’al-peor/Chemosh, The Israelites worshiped him on the Plains of Moab. Num. 25: 1-9, Psa. 106: 28, Hos. 9:10.



Chemosh, Solomon set a temple to him in Jerusalem, along with that to Ash’toreth, 1 Kings 11:7.



Bull Worship/Apis, 1 Kings 12: 28-33, and of course the Golden Calf.



Gad, God of Fortune, Isaiah 65:11



Me’ni, God of Destiny, Isaiah 65: 11



Mal’cham/Moloch, 1 Kings 11: 5, 33 – 11 Kings 23:13



Mero’dach, Worshipped by Nebuchadnezzar, Jer. 51: 44



Mo’lech, Solomon built him a temple at Tophet.



Nehush’tan, Serpent God, 11 Kings 18:4



Rephar, Israelites worshiped him in the desert, Acts 7: 43



Satyr/Pan, I put up a whole page on this awhile back. And a Temple of Pan has been uncovered in Israel.



Tam’muz, Women cried for him at the Jerusalem Temple. Ezek. 8: 14, Jer. 22:18, Amos 8: 10, Zech. 12:10



The children gather wood, and the fathers kindle the fire, and the women knead the dough, to make cakes to the queen of heaven, .- Jeremiah 7:18

All of which were idols and all who turned away from God were punished accordingly. Not everyone worshipped idols, either, so your assertion has no merit. Most of the people were faithfull.

slactweak wrote:

)O( Inanna )O( wrote:

I’m tired of hearing crap about the ONE GOD Hebrews!



So I thought I’d mention SOME of the Gods and Goddesses worshiped by the Hebrews.



These are from the Bible itself. I did not include any outside scholarship!



Asherah/Anath & and her consort El/ Baal, 1 Kings 11:5, 15: 11 & 12, and elsewhere.



Ba’al-ze’bub/Baal, 11 Kings 1: 2-16, 17: 10-17



Ash’toreth, Solomon and his people worshiped her, 1 Kings 11:5, 11 Kings 23:13.



Ba’al-berith – El-berith, “God of the covenant.” Judg. 9:46, 8:33, 9:4.



Ba’al-peor/Chemosh, The Israelites worshiped him on the Plains of Moab. Num. 25: 1-9, Psa. 106: 28, Hos. 9:10.



Chemosh, Solomon set a temple to him in Jerusalem, along with that to Ash’toreth, 1 Kings 11:7.



Bull Worship/Apis, 1 Kings 12: 28-33, and of course the Golden Calf.



Gad, God of Fortune, Isaiah 65:11



Me’ni, God of Destiny, Isaiah 65: 11



Mal’cham/Moloch, 1 Kings 11: 5, 33 – 11 Kings 23:13



Mero’dach, Worshipped by Nebuchadnezzar, Jer. 51: 44



Mo’lech, Solomon built him a temple at Tophet.



Nehush’tan, Serpent God, 11 Kings 18:4



Rephar, Israelites worshiped him in the desert, Acts 7: 43



Satyr/Pan, I put up a whole page on this awhile back. And a Temple of Pan has been uncovered in Israel.



Tam’muz, Women cried for him at the Jerusalem Temple. Ezek. 8: 14, Jer. 22:18, Amos 8: 10, Zech. 12:10



The children gather wood, and the fathers kindle the fire, and the women knead the dough, to make cakes to the queen of heaven, .- Jeremiah 7:18

All of which were idols and all who turned away from God were punished accordingly. Not everyone worshipped idols, either, so your assertion has no merit. Most of the people were faithfull.

That is ridiculous, This is a HUGE span of time (above, ) and these are the Gods that they CONTINUALLY worshiped and kept turning back to. The Bible tells us so.



They are also Elohiym!



As for "most were faithfull, " NOT! You'd better read/re-read at least Kings!



These are their Gods. All the way through Kings they are trying to force them into One God worship!



The Israelites keep worshiping their Old Gods, and the One God Group keeps attacking them!

NO Pork on MY Fork Vol. I wrote:

The Origin of the Trinity

The Origin of the Trinity can be found in the first 3 verses of the Bible!



Genesis 1:1-3

In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.



And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.



And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.



In Genesis 1:1 we have God.

In Genesis 1:2 we have the Spirit

In Genesis 1:3 we have the Word



This goes perfectly with:



I John 5:7

For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.





This is the Origin of the Trinity. The origin is "in the beginning"!

)O( Inanna )O( wrote:



*snip*



That is ridiculous, This is a HUGE span of time (above, ) and these are the Gods that they CONTINUALLY worshiped and kept turning back to. The Bible tells us so.



They are also Elohiym!



As for "most were faithfull, " NOT! You'd better read/re-read at least Kings!



These are their Gods. All the way through Kings they are trying to force them into One God worship!



The Israelites keep worshiping their Old Gods, and the One God Group keeps attacking them!

Ok, then you'll be needing to provide some evidence to back your claim. Those were different instances of different people at different times. The entire nation was not involved in every one of those instances, else the entire nation would pretty much have been punished out of existence, and they weren't.

)O( Inanna )O( wrote:

slactweak wrote:

)O( Inanna )O( wrote:

I’m tired of hearing crap about the ONE GOD Hebrews!



So I thought I’d mention SOME of the Gods and Goddesses worshiped by the Hebrews.



These are from the Bible itself. I did not include any outside scholarship!



Asherah/Anath & and her consort El/ Baal, 1 Kings 11:5, 15: 11 & 12, and elsewhere.



Ba’al-ze’bub/Baal, 11 Kings 1: 2-16, 17: 10-17



Ash’toreth, Solomon and his people worshiped her, 1 Kings 11:5, 11 Kings 23:13.



Ba’al-berith – El-berith, “God of the covenant.” Judg. 9:46, 8:33, 9:4.



Ba’al-peor/Chemosh, The Israelites worshiped him on the Plains of Moab. Num. 25: 1-9, Psa. 106: 28, Hos. 9:10.



Chemosh, Solomon set a temple to him in Jerusalem, along with that to Ash’toreth, 1 Kings 11:7.



Bull Worship/Apis, 1 Kings 12: 28-33, and of course the Golden Calf.



Gad, God of Fortune, Isaiah 65:11



Me’ni, God of Destiny, Isaiah 65: 11



Mal’cham/Moloch, 1 Kings 11: 5, 33 – 11 Kings 23:13



Mero’dach, Worshipped by Nebuchadnezzar, Jer. 51: 44



Mo’lech, Solomon built him a temple at Tophet.



Nehush’tan, Serpent God, 11 Kings 18:4



Rephar, Israelites worshiped him in the desert, Acts 7: 43



Satyr/Pan, I put up a whole page on this awhile back. And a Temple of Pan has been uncovered in Israel.



Tam’muz, Women cried for him at the Jerusalem Temple. Ezek. 8: 14, Jer. 22:18, Amos 8: 10, Zech. 12:10



The children gather wood, and the fathers kindle the fire, and the women knead the dough, to make cakes to the queen of heaven, .- Jeremiah 7:18

All of which were idols and all who turned away from God were punished accordingly. Not everyone worshipped idols, either, so your assertion has no merit. Most of the people were faithfull.

That is ridiculous, This is a HUGE span of time (above, ) and these are the Gods that they CONTINUALLY worshiped and kept turning back to. The Bible tells us so.



They are also Elohiym!



As for "most were faithfull, " NOT! You'd better read/re-read at least Kings!



These are their Gods. All the way through Kings they are trying to force them into One God worship!



The Israelites keep worshiping their Old Gods, and the One God Group keeps attacking them!

Thought I would add this as it shows a list of KINGS worshiping the Old Gods. And that means most of the people under them as well.



Read especially Kings and Chronicles where you can read about most of their leaders - including Solomon and King David – that brought back Goddess worship.



Read where the men are lighting the fires and the women are baking cakes for the Queen-Of-Heaven.



It says in the Bible that the people kept turning BACK to the Goddess.



Read how once they had brought back the Sacred Groves and High Places, they also started putting their children through the FLAMES again.



11 Kings 17:16, 17, 18 – Israel makes molten images, served Ba’al, and put children through fire.

11 Kings 17:1-12 – King Hoshea did evil - the people of Israel built high places, groves, served idols, etc.

11 Kings 21:2-8 - (3)Alters and Groves as did Ahab King of Israel.

11 Kings 23:4-10 - king Josiah commands high priest to remove idols from the temple and kills priests.

11 kings: 24: 8 &9 – King Jehoiachin did evil as is father King Jehoiakin did.

11 Chronicles 33: 3 – King Hezekiah rebuilds the high places and alters.

11 Chronicles 33: 21 &22 – King Manaseh followed by his son King A’mon sacrificed to carved images. 11 Chronicles 34:25 –Israel Burned incense unto other Gods during King Josiah’s reign.



We still had Sacred Harlots gathered at the temples.



Priestesses were still in the Israeli’s Sacred Ancestral home, Since Priestesses of The White Owl came out to dance the ancient Spiral Dances.



And it does not matter if the One God winners, or Christians, or YOU, think they did evil. They were not evil for continuing to worship their Old Gods, even while being persecuted and murdered!



These are the facts straight from your Bible.

slactweak wrote:

A short summary along with a link does much better.

Yes it does.



And, it also helps to make good sense.

Those who would deny the Trinity ignore two things.



1) Trinity was a prophecy.

Trinity was a concept promised.

Trinity was an anticipation of pagan of rejection.

Trinity would anticipate the demeaning muslim subordination in the Koran.

A mere son of God would be subordinated among the pagan Gods vut for the concept of Father, Son, and Holy Ghost.







Rev. 3:12 ...and I will write upon him my new name, (Trinity).



2) Can you stand more...?

sTrAiGhT fRoM tHe BiBlE wrote:

NO Pork on MY Fork Vol. I wrote:

The Origin of the Trinity

The Origin of the Trinity can be found in the first 3 verses of the Bible!



Genesis 1:1-3

In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.



And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.



And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.



In Genesis 1:1 we have God.

In Genesis 1:2 we have the Spirit

In Genesis 1:3 we have the Word



This goes perfectly with:



I John 5:7

For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.





This is the Origin of the Trinity. The origin is "in the beginning"!

That would be nice, except that the Jews who wrote it don't agree with you.



Also you have the word Elohiym, being translated as God!