So there is this idea that if you have 10 monkes hitting random keys on a typwriter they will eventually produce the works of (insert human text here) in the course of millions of years, just by random chance.

There are only so many leters to work with and eventually random keystrokes will produce actuall readable text.

Well now here is my idea. (im new here so maybe this is old hat) If they can get the Quantum Computer working it could do the random key strokes of 10 monkeis over a million years in a few days maybee? Or a week? Maybee its not as great as they say and it takes a month... still works fine.

Now you set this super computer to work. Mashing out every possiblilty of combination of the alphabet. Keep it down to say only 15 letter words at max.

Now this is pumping out more pages of text than any one could read in a lifetime, but you dont have to. You have somthing akin to a web search that looks throug the text for things you tell it to look for.

For instance... you say "10 monkies on a Quantum Computer" and it pulls up millions of pages with that text on it. In one of those pages is this post. (another one has this same post with less misspellings)

You could do other stuff with this.. like say put in "faster than light speed" and some where in there would be the proof that its possible or thats its not. The very possibility of those words lining up was formed billiongs of years ago, along with every other possible combo of 26 letters on a page.

Every poem was writen by the univers some time long ago. ... we just "remember" them and write them down.

We are allmost at the point of making a computer, that could tell us how to make a computer, that could explain the univers to us.

I along with others having been working on this program for a bit now, and so far we haven't gotten anything very good that matches any known massive literal work. The best we can get so far is a close proximity of only about three words appearing in a similar order on a sentence that already exists. Now, do we believe that if given enough time that the computer will turn out something more elaborate that makes sense? Sure, but there still has to be one of us to turn it on and read it, to basically be there watching so that we don't miss it. Still though it's not the super computer you talk about, but that technology can change and advance in a mere few years.



Let me turn it on right now to see what it comes up with, I'll limit the sentence to the first 20 words...





Guyed competent one sake jail juvenilia gymkhana cabling cat calm my obeisance dyslexia extrinsic cyanotic crying quoth nylon narcissism gustier.



...Not exactly poetic or brilliant as you can see.

Hey Im just glad you understand what Im talking about ... I try to explain this to the people I work with and ... well they think I got droped on my head... recently.

But yeah we dont have a computer right now that will make this work. I just was thinking that if this COULD work it would mean that everything that anyone could ever think up was allready thought up by the universe and mathmatical statistics.

Oh by the way that sentence that I put up was from the program we have with the words already embedded in there, but we have another one too which is with just letters coming up to see what they can make. Let me put a sample of that one too, in this case I'll limit it to the first 200 letters.





...





NDIWICIQGHOHAHIDOXNAKG IXAWAGAYIVELUEUTAQAMOFB

BTOXEKAGOCOTEMALEPUSOF

ENOKUMUJOZAMECUZEWEPEB

IRKEGUYUNEZSAIFABOHDEQO

QUWUTINISUGEJEVUSERABUX

OFIHEZPULIYVEYAROPRACUVI

QAIZUJEVATIJUGVONOZIKOGO

KECAYOXUJNEDZOWUD





... Now it requires an interpreter in the English language to make sense of it, and so now we have to break it down to see how it forms a sentence with words that make sense to us, and we get ->





I DO GAY IVE AM OF TO AGO MALE PUS OF NO AM WE GUY AB TIN IS USER AB OF HE JUG ON GO





...





As one can see the problem with this method is that a lot of short words come up, and there is a question about how many "I's" to include in it, I interpreted it with only using the first "I" and left out all the other singular repeats, but in the English language the words which we use most to make a sentence "OF, THE, IN, IT, TO, A, IS, THAT, YOU, AND" are only 1 to 4 letters, and because of this they are bound to repeat quite often even in a randomn set of combinations. In the above example there are only two 4 letter words which are: MALE, and USER. The rest are all 2 to 3 letters. AM repeats itself twice, as well as AB, and the rest are unique except for I which as mentioned had to be taken out because it occured so often, even though it's a crucial word in English sentence structure.





This sample is only in English, but there might be words in other languages that make sense, African dialects, Asian dialects, or European, or Native American dialects that maybe would be spotted to those knowing them.

Interesting thoughts. But I seem to doubt that random words will come out to make a paragraph as insightful as something someone designed.

It might work if you limited it to actual words first, then worked backwards.



Just had an epiphany: I remember my sophomore religion teacher talking about intelligent design. "The possibility of the universe coming together the way it is now is equivalent to giving a monkey the parts to a watch and having it assemble them correctly"

Kind of the same deal. Random words(parts) randomly come together, forming a sentence, more words/sentences come together after an indefinate amount of time, forming a story. Hm, might be interesting to see what our computers could do with this.

SalamanderWrote:

...that anyone could ever think up was allready thought up by the universe and mathmatical statistics.

This is what we believe, that everything is already there, the only limitation we have is in the method we use itself. Which is that the English language has 26 characters for the alphabet, but the Chinese Language and other languages have different characters than the standard 26 letter alphabet used in the West, and some dialects have symbols not used in English. So as far as English goes we try to best make sense of other outside words too that might come up in other nations as close as they would appear to the English form of the alphabet. For example Chinese names like Xuang or Yi, or Hebrew names such as Shanar or Meleth. The characters for words in these other languages would look like this though ->



ïאּשׁïï

ﻲﻡï»

ÑÑÑÑÒÑ



Etc... so at least everything thought up and translated to English would be possible, we hope.

Couldnt you take out Q? and maybe one or two other leters? Or maybee use another alphabet with less characters? Allso I think the spacebar should be treated as a letter. At the core of the idea you shouldnt have to alter anything to get readable text (after the fact that is, altering the alphabet ahead of time or getting a smaller one does not count as altering the output text)

SalamanderWrote:

Couldnt you take out Q? and maybe one or two other leters? Or maybee use another alphabet with less characters? Allso I think the spacebar should be treated as a letter.

Any letter can be taken out yes, and also a smaller alphabet used, but there is yet a problem with taking them out too, and that is for example that although the Letters J, Q, Z, and X only have a few words that begin with them - They are still nevertheless incorporated into MANY MANY words that make up other words. Such as;



Realize

Object

Inquire

Experience



Then Q itself has an anomaly because most of the words with Q in the English language have to have a U following it, so the interpreter has to decide whether or not a sequence is close to forming a word or if it doesn't count because the word lacks the U. So you might come up with:



I have an excellent way of qulifying for the tournaments in the league.



...Even if that sentence came up, should we disregard it because the supposed word "Qualifying" lacked the A?



If the spacebar is treated as a letter that actually reduces the possibilities of even short words coming up, sure it can be thrown in there but that complicates matters because it can also keep making a lot of spaces such as TO D A Y IS HOU LD TRY T O WR IT E M OM ... <- now read together that would make a sentence if the spacebar wasn't there, but with it then the whole sentence has to be thrown out. Also there is a question about including the other parts of Grammar ->



The comma

Apostrophe

Period

And Question Mark



But it adds to the dilemma since sentences may come up completely unstructured if the interpreter has to follow those rules.



Now about what you asked, no, if one wishes they don't have to interpret it and just wait for a sentence to come up. So yes if that method is preferred then one can go with that, but again it multiplies the amount of time that a possible true sensible sentence would come up. It all depends on how much time one has, to read the results that the computer would come up with. Even if you let the computer go on by itself for a week, and only inform you of possible results even if it already came up with thousands, then one would still need to read it by eye to see what sentences the computer came up with.

I understand what you're getting at; it's funny because I just had my last class in Intro to Quantum Mechanics today. However I think this is akin to seeing religious signs in natural phenomena, like seeing Jesus' face in a burnt piece of toast, or seeing the Virgin Mary in ummm, a piece of toast (sorry, not very creative right now) If you believe that these hold true meaning, then I can't convince you, but if you don't, you see that these occurrances do not have meaning unless we are there to give them meaning. Hey, who knows, maybe we've already seen the mysteries of the universe unveiled to us by these supercomputers. Unfortunately they were written in a language we do not understand ;) dalskjseeijfe alkjdi.

SalamanderWrote:

Hey Im just glad you understand what Im talking about ... I try to explain this to the people I work with and ... well they think I got droped on my head... recently.


But yeah we dont have a computer right now that will make this work. I just was thinking that if this COULD work it would mean that everything that anyone could ever think up was allready thought up by the universe and mathmatical statistics.

WOW! ~ AFTER 15 years, I think I have found a few people that might be interested in PANGALACTIC arguments about how scientists that have been trying to proove what we can believe, fighting Faith promoting believing is seeing that what you believe that can't be prooved is more improtant have been drawn to polarised situations concerning Equidistant Letter Spacing in The Bible!



In the late 1980's, scientists and mathematicians had long been investigating rumours leaking about the secret works of Rabbi Weismandel (of Schindler's List fame) into The Oral Tradition of Moses (whereby, GOD told Moses EVERYTHING on the mountain, from the initial instant of creation to the 4th day when He created the sun & the moon!)



These works were discussed in French Protestant churches after Pastor Thobois visited Jerusalem and wrote articles (1987/8) 10 years berfore the books Bible Codes and The Truth Behind The Bible Codes (as far as I can see, they were just commercialisations by M. Drosnin & Prof J. Satinover both making money out of what had been kept secret for THOUSANDS OF YEARS ~ REFERENCE THE PROPHET DANIEL ~ SEAL THIS BOOK ~ IN THHE LAST DAYS THERE WILL BE AN INCREASE IN KNOWLEDGE ...)



The only reason I could mute reading those books would be to decide if their discussions motivate you to get involved in the "Holy" row! Some scientists stating that they have now been convinced that the ONTOLOGICAL ARGUMENT is THE ONLY ANSWER TO QUANTUM interference in what we class as Universe, by definition, ALL things, by an external intelligence, conform to the text of the Torah (first 5 books of the Bible) definition of GOD.



There is every likelihood of finding any name by using Equidistant Letter Spacing through more than 300, 000 caracters that make up the text to be considered as a string, wrapped around a barrel, the circumference beginning as the length of caracters with no overlap.



From that point, reducing the circumference of the barrel by 1 caracter, creating an initial overlap of just 1 above another, these letters (like old Latin) have values.



Each time the circumference diminishes by 1 caracter, there are more overlaps and if you want to burn some BIG BLUE DEEP THOUGHT Computer (Is everybody here too young to remember 2001 A Space Oddysy Computer had the name IBM but with each caracter going 1 step backwards = HAL!



At the same time of the release of that film, there were rows raging about subliminal messages used by Coca Cola inserting a 25th frame showing a naked lady in ads or music like Stairway To Heaven played backwards revealing satanic worship messages!



Now some illusionists are revealing "Trade Secrets", you can learn how the composition of the same letters can produce grills like a crossword puzzle so that mentally we register but are not aware that we have, hence sub liminal.



So back to the barrel, reducing until the circumference is just 2 caracters!



The multitude of "grids" or alignments of letters goes way beyond the next Prime number to be calculated! Have you seen "Fuzzy" logic? REALITY IS MUCH STRANGER THAN FICTION!



This combination of grids contains every event in the Absolute Value of TIME! Every possibility taken into consideratin! Talk about "parallel worlds" or Dr. Who? Stargate and all that? Just what 1 quantum monkey wrote in 743 lietimes! (He was ambidextrous, using two Z80886 processors!



This is much too deep and time consuming if of little interest.



You can now download lots of software and even see a multitude of probable dates associated with your own death! This is why these works were kept secret for so long!



Even Mossad is said to have consulted the scientists aftre Drosnin claims to have forecast the assasination of Rabbin 9 months prior to it happening!



Gotta go for now, hope to see some tonight?

lol realy its just an expresion now. The idea is to use a computer (the kind we dont have now) to crunch it all out and to allso search AND to allso understand whats its reading when searching ... obvoisly we dont have this computer yet. Infact I would say the compters we have now are only just a step up from monkies.

bluesmasterelfWrote:

Ok, my views on probability aside, you absolutely must take the monkeys out of the equation. I don't know if you heard but they tried it out. Some college or research group got a dozen monkeys in a room with a computer for a week, you know what happened? They crapped on it, and typed S a whole lot. Monkeys don't type at random, they type with interest in certain letters, but mostly they just crap on things. Keep it to the random letter generators if you even want to have a hope of getting anything.

The proability of throwing 100 coins off the Eiffel Tower and having 2 land on each other is as close to 0 as most computers can cope with. All 100, well there probably haven't been enough seconds since it existed to have enough coins fall to get anywhere near the 1% of probability, but it still has a probability of greater than 0.



The Quantum Physics fans will know much more than I do about letter/number crunching. If I had any sense, I'd spend more time on the rapid learning techniques being discussed in relationship with mind boggling illusionists that explain the use of subliminal messaging!



If I want to go on, should also spend some Google/Froogle time looking up things that could help me avoid making a total fool of myself, but haven't found a college that offers such studies!



Perhaps I should just hang around the Absolute Nonsense box and see if I can learn anything from any erudite person that has hours to spend doing nothing better than exchanging electronic packages with a guy that knows he hasn't got a life!



(No, I might be considered by others as a looser, but have gained more than most can hope for and wouldn't swap places with anyone in the world! Might have problems, but who doesn't? This isn't where I'd go to find shoulders to cry on!)



We all need someone to lean on



When you find that life's too tough you just have a talk with God



Imagine



What The World Needs Now



I Hope The Russians Love Their Children Too



(And Americans, Jews, Arabs, Communists, Catholics, Protestants, Atheists, Pagans, Hindus, Bhuddists and anyone who feels left out!)

LongcrowWrote:






NiIWICIQGHOHAHIDOXNAKG


BTfXEKAGOCOTEMALEPUSOF


ENOyUMUJOZAMECUZEWEPEB


IRKEGoYUNEZSAIFABOHDEQO


QUWUTIuYSUGEJEVUSERABUX


OFIHEZPULIsVEYAROPRACUVI


QAIZUJEVATIeUGVONOZIKOG


KECAYOXUJNEeZOWUPLKHYM






The presentation of a letter can contain means of leading you to thinking of something that you would not associate with the whole text!









Having used lower case to modify a bit of the above = CAN YOU SEE







Just a tangent Gadsby wrote a short book "Not Using The Letter E"







There are "triggers" in the brain that react to many things that our concious mind hasn't perceived! After a few years as a victim of mental health experiments in provoking reactions they didn't get, I started looking at The Matrix as a contemporary parable with subliminal messages that, only remain under the level of perception until the recipient becomes aware, not only of their existance, but also how to reciprocate and practice anger management on them! When it looked like I was getting beyond their contro;, I got thrown out "unfit for humans, but unable to enforce incarceration!"









Would like to contine if any can be bothered to start looking at when subliminal messages began with Coca-Cola & messages in reverse on certain vynil records and encourage me to follow the White Rabbit?

SalamanderWrote:






So there is this idea that if you have 10 monkes hitting random keys on a typwriter they will eventually produce the works of (insert human text here) in the course of millions of years, just by random chance.



There are only so many leters to work with and eventually random keystrokes will produce actuall readable text.



Well now here is my idea. (im new here so maybe this is old hat) If they can get the Quantum Computer working it could do the random key strokes of 10 monkeis over a million years in a few days maybee? Or a week? Maybee its not as great as they say and it takes a month... still works fine.



Now you set this super computer to work. Mashing out every possiblilty of combination of the alphabet. Keep it down to say only 15 letter words at max.



Now this is pumping out more pages of text than any one could read in a lifetime, but you dont have to. You have somthing akin to a web search that looks throug the text for things you tell it to look for.



For instance... you say "10 monkies on a Quantum Computer" and it pulls up millions of pages with that text on it. In one of those pages is this post. (another one has this same post with less misspellings)



You could do other stuff with this.. like say put in "faster than light speed" and some where in there would be the proof that its possible or thats its not. The very possibility of those words lining up was formed billiongs of years ago, along with every other possible combo of 26 letters on a page.



Every poem was writen by the univers some time long ago. ... we just "remember" them and write them down.



We are allmost at the point of making a computer, that could tell us how to make a computer, that could explain the univers to us.

Your whole proposition is false in the sense that "wisdom" is not in the writing of the words but in the selection of these words that are wise. The process that you describe is inherent in human conscioussness, random events that are then added to form a structure. Then there is the selection which is not made only by the wise man himself, but by civilization through time. I may say something now, but history will or not select it as wisdom and ascribe worth. Our peers, being our peers cannot easily judge our work but the more advanced generations of the future will if only by ... experiment - seeing the usefullness of our words or work.



If you were to punch in "light speed" you would get a million results like "light speed cow" "light speed crab" light speed chair" etc. If these monkeys had coherent thought you would get results like "light speed is really fast" "light speed is unobtainable" "light speed is constant" - known wisdom. Even if by chance you could get proof you would have to search for it, and then check it for every time it was false. So this process is a lot more time consuming than the random generation.

JohnWrote:



[t]SalamanderWrote:









So there is this idea that if you have 10 monkes hitting random keys on a typwriter they will eventually produce the works of (insert human text here) in the course of millions of years, just by random chance.





There are only so many leters to work with and eventually random keystrokes will produce actuall readable text.





Well now here is my idea. (im new here so maybe this is old hat) If they can get the Quantum Computer working it could do the random key strokes of 10 monkeis over a million years in a few days maybee? Or a week? Maybee its not as great as they say and it takes a month... still works fine.





Now you set this super computer to work. Mashing out every possiblilty of combination of the alphabet. Keep it down to say only 15 letter words at max.





Now this is pumping out more pages of text than any one could read in a lifetime, but you dont have to. You have somthing akin to a web search that looks throug the text for things you tell it to look for.





For instance... you say "10 monkies on a Quantum Computer" and it pulls up millions of pages with that text on it. In one of those pages is this post. (another one has this same post with less misspellings)





You could do other stuff with this.. like say put in "faster than light speed" and some where in there would be the proof that its possible or thats its not. The very possibility of those words lining up was formed billiongs of years ago, along with every other possible combo of 26 letters on a page.





Every poem was writen by the univers some time long ago. ... we just "remember" them and write them down.





We are allmost at the point of making a computer, that could tell us how to make a computer, that could explain the univers to us.[/t]









Your whole proposition is false in the sense that "wisdom" is not in the writing of the words but in the selection of these words that are wise. The process that you describe is inherent in human conscioussness, random events that are then added to form a structure. Then there is the selection which is not made only by the wise man himself, but by civilization through time. I may say something now, but history will or not select it as wisdom and ascribe worth. Our peers, being our peers cannot easily judge our work but the more advanced generations of the future will if only by ... experiment - seeing the usefullness of our words or work.



If you were to punch in "light speed" you would get a million results like "light speed cow" "light speed crab" light speed chair" etc. If these monkeys had coherent thought you would get results like "light speed is really fast" "light speed is unobtainable" "light speed is constant" - known wisdom. Even if by chance you could get proof you would have to search for it, and then check it for every time it was false. So this process is a lot more time consuming than the random generation.

Unfortunately, some discussions that manifested a bit more than just passing time on a keyboard with nothing better to do get dropped into oblivion by the multitude of topics, it is obvios some don't read what others write, just want their pic at the top of the page!



Looks like Hestia has concluded her tests, Descartes & Kant sink like a Cannonball and having an argument (where most agree, the sole objective is to get the most hits! Sorry if you're reading this ALLAN!)

If Unconditional love does't answer all the top 10 tpics, I'll wonder if he is being taken care of!



As for Wise and Wisdom, that is a curious topic John introduces to Salsmander's debate on random generation of anything from letters and words that could assemble an anacoluthon (COLLINS DICTIONARY: Anacoluthon : a construction that involves the change from 1 grammatical sequence to another within a single sentence (lack of grammatical sense like âIn the garden a door was heard to slam shutâ )



I'm used to that kind of parc (inverted) from T. Bliar & G.'s Bush incapable of giving a straight answer, so locked in the web of deceipt they weaved they probably do believe the insanities they try to convince us are REAL! Proposing any that don't believe & agree with them are insane, I looked up sanity! It is soundness of judgement, with no reference to the soundness of mind of the judge!



So they (& many of you) think I'm mad. I think that bombs in the name of LOVE & PEACE make as much sense as rape in the name of virginity! Ridiculous as it might sound, in the name of The Virgin Mary, attrocities, including rape were commited in the Saracens belief that they were called to do work for their god that involved scenes remaniscent of the last chapters of Judges!



"In the name of God!", "Jesus" and "Allah" thousands have died this year!



More is spent on killing people that on healing the sick or feeding the starving!



The link to 100 monkeys? Aren't they the omnipotent fingers counting chads and pushing buttons, failing to compose a single sentence that makes as much sense as 1 of those monkeys scratching his head saying: "Why bother entertaining those morons that think they are a superior evolution of this humble animal?"