Maggie Mormon Wrote:

Ok, so I made this thread - by a different title yesterday, but for some reason after someone named Wendy posted in it, I can't get into it to read the responses.





Anyways, I have been doing some further research on this and wanted to discuss this. First, let's start by looking at the passage in question:



<center><center><big><big><big>Joh n 10:32-38</center></big></big></big>





32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?


33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.


34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?


35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;


36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?


37 If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.


38 But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father [is] in me, and I in him.


********************************************************************************************





Now in verse 32 Christ is quoting Psalms 82:6, so I went back and read through the whole passage. And I found some very interesting stuff.





First, in 82:1, "God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods."


gods here is from the Hewbrew word, 'elohiym which is plural and means, "rulers, divine ones, angels, gods". It can also mean, "godlike". Now keep this in mind as we skip down to verse 6.





" I have said, Ye [are] gods; and all of you [are] children of the most High. But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes. Arise, O God, judge the earth: for thou shalt inherit all nations." (Ps 82:6-8)





ANd BTW "gods" in verse 6 is the same meaning as "gods" in verse 1.





What I learned from this passage is that gods are rulers and divine ones. Well who are divine ones? The children of God as said in verse 6. And who are the children of God? People. But wait a minute! Maggie, how do we know that this refers to people and not angels or something of the like? Because in verse 7 it says, "ye shall die like men," Men being taken from the Hebrew noun, 'adam which means mankind.





So they are men. Yet it says gods are rulers? What does this mean? Well, go back to Gen 1:28, "And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth." So we learn here that Adam was given dominion over the Earth. And dominion is the English word translated from the Hebrew word, "radah which means, "to rule" - and who is someone who rules? A ruler.





Let's wrap this all together with Rev. 3:21, "To him (meaning people) that overcometh will I(refering to Himself, Jesus Christ here) grant to sit with me (still refering to Himself, Jesus Christ) in my (still Jesus Christ) throne, even as I (still refering to Himself, Jesus Christ) also overcame, and am set down with my Father (refering to His - Jesus Christ - Father, God NOT Himself at this point) in his (God) throne."





Also, I looked into "Father" here - just to make sure it was refering to someone other than Christ and it was the Greek word, "pater which means, "generator or male ancestor" so clearly Christ is NOT talking about Him (Christ) sitting upon the throne. He is saying that all who follow Him and overcometh will sit with Him (Christ) in His throne just as He did with His Father.





So, if we add Revs 7:21 to this, "He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son." Now, God is the one talking here. He is saying we will inherit all that Christ has inherited. And Christ says we will inherit all that He has inherited in 3:21, so what has Christ inherited? And therfor what does this make us? If we are to reign with Christ as mentioned here, (Rev 20:6), " 6 Blessed and holy [is] he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. "





Ok, so if we reign what does this make us? Rulers. And if we are rulers....

Did better homework this time. :)

shameless bump :)

Yes, better homework.



We'll get you on the right side yet...

RandallWrote:

Yes, better homework.





We'll get you on the right side yet...

Randall are you Catholic??? Ok, now that I've presented my idea better here, care to discuss?

Maggie Mormon Wrote:



[t]RandallWrote:

Yes, better homework.







We'll get you on the right side yet...[/t]





Randall are you Catholic??? Ok, now that I've presented my idea better here, care to discuss?

Lutheran, actually.



I have no issue with your overall presentation here, other than to note that theosis (and like concepts) require there to be a God to become of one nature with... and the limitations of God the Father conceived as a human progressing by human means is much too limited to do that.

RandallWrote:



[t]Maggie Mormon Wrote:



[t]RandallWrote:

Yes, better homework.







We'll get you on the right side yet...[/t]





Randall are you Catholic??? Ok, now that I've presented my idea better here, care to discuss?[/t]







Lutheran, actually.



I have no issue with your overall presentation here, other than to note that theosis (and like concepts) require there to be a God to become of one nature with... and the limitations of God the Father conceived as a human progressing by human means is much too limited to do that.

Are you saying that my belief here limits God? I don't feel that it does. It means that people are to be faithful, obediant, and submissive to Him. To overcome does not mean that we are perfect as Christ was -- because Christ had greater power than we will ever have. But we are to use what we do have (talents, and such) for God and by committing ourselves fully to God we have overcome. Make sense?



I don't find this limiting to God at all.

MarilynWrote:



[t]Maggie Mormon Wrote:



[t]RandallWrote:

Yes, better homework.







We'll get you on the right side yet...[/t]





Randall are you Catholic??? Ok, now that I've presented my idea better here, care to discuss?[/t]











SOME FOOD FOR THROUGH , GOOD LINK http://www.leaderu.com/offices/michaeldavis/docs/mormonism/wordt o.html

Maryln -- Does this website supercede the word of God in the Holy Bible? I'm sticking to biblical discussion here. You're more than welcome to join, but I'm sorry, no website is above the inerrant, God breathed word of God in the Old and New Testaments. If it is different for you.... well, then I'm afraid we don't have anything to talk about. :(

AaronWrote:



[t]JonathanWrote:



[t] 32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?



33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.



34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?



35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;



36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?



37 If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.



38 But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father [is] in me, and I in him.



********************************************************************************************





. :)[/t]







32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?



33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.



34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?



35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;



36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?



37 If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.



38 But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father [is] in me, and I in him.



********************************************************************************************





. :)[/t]





SO mormons believing they can become gods is biblical. Jesus even calls people gods. Not that I believe anything at all but Id like to see what those hateful evangialacails have to say about this one.

Exactly.. but the evangelicals like the saducees and pharisees break blood vessels hearing this..

Especially Randall.



I actually wrote a post on this once. It was quite interesting. So far, no more replies... hmmm I wonder what this means.

ChapDaddyWrote:

If through faith we are made sons of God, what does that mean? Christ is the Word made flesh. Christ is the Word which is God. By faith, we are in Christ and Christ is in us. This is not much harder than adding 2 and 2. It is not of ourselves that we are who we are but what God makes us is far more than many are willing to admit or believe.

You're awesome Chap. :) I don't agree with the part of Christ being God, but other than that, you're right on.