ShadowInEdenWrote:

For the sake of argument, let us imagine for a moment that the religious majority living in this country was not composed of Protestants and Catholics, but a whole bunch of scantily-clad beach-bum Buddhists. What if your kid came home from school one day and told you that the teachers had decided to begin classes each morning with the same sermon that ended with: "We are not worthy, O Great Buddha, and we lift our surfboards high to Your Glory!"




How pissed off would you be if you found out that your hard-earned money was being used for public servants to indoctrinate your kids into a belief-system that ran directly contrary to your own, and what you have already taught them?




Personally, as a potential Christ-adherent myself, I would be seeing red and getting my proverbial freak on to initiate a "Matrix"-style ass-whipping in the courts. I'll be damned if I'm going to feed the fires of what I consider to be a fabrication. Likewise, as both a potential Christ-adherent and an American citizen, I can't hold a double-standard for my fellow taxpayers who do not believe as I do and expect them to monetarily support the tenets of my religion. If I'm not willing to put up with teacher-sponsored prayers to Surfer Buddha in the public classroom, then why should the atheist, the Wiccan or the agnostic be willing to put up with that same teacher holding daily prayer sessions to a God that, in their minds, doesn't even exist?

Or the Hindu, or the Sikh, or the Buddhist, or the Pagan, or the Shinto (not sure what the singular for a follower of Shintoism is) or, hell, even the Muslim. And ... well, you pretty much get the idea, no need to keep listing religions here.

I agree; prayer in school is fine and dandy when the students are doing it during free time that isn't getting in the way.



It seems to me an issue that's just there so people can argue about it.

ShadowInEdenWrote:

For the sake of argument, let us imagine for a moment that the religious majority living in this country was not composed of Protestants and Catholics, but a whole bunch of scantily-clad beach-bum Buddhists. What if your kid came home from school one day and told you that the teachers had decided to begin classes each morning with the same sermon that ended with: "We are not worthy, O Great Buddha, and we lift our surfboards high to Your Glory!"





How pissed off would you be if you found out that your hard-earned money was being used for public servants to indoctrinate your kids into a belief-system that ran directly contrary to your own, and what you have already taught them?





Personally, as a potential Christ-adherent myself, I would be seeing red and getting my proverbial freak on to initiate a "Matrix"-style ass-whipping in the courts. I'll be damned if I'm going to feed the fires of what I consider to be a fabrication. Likewise, as both a potential Christ-adherent and an American citizen, I can't hold a double-standard for my fellow taxpayers who do not believe as I do and expect them to monetarily support the tenets of my religion. If I'm not willing to put up with teacher-sponsored prayers to Surfer Buddha in the public classroom, then why should the atheist, the Wiccan or the agnostic be willing to put up with that same teacher holding daily prayer sessions to a God that, in their minds, doesn't even exist?

I know; kudos.

Pandora's box is open.

I wish cotton haired Englishmen ran the schools and then we know our prayers would be concurant.

But you re right. At this juncture we are better off working extra hard to teach our kids religion ourselves as a parent.

ShadowInEdenWrote:

Funny, I making these posts 6:00 am Central Time ... Y'know, to wake me up before I head off to my job as a chemical weapons designer for Haliburton. The moment I start posting is the moment people apparently start leaving. The board slows to a crawl. And I'm thinking: "Holy God, I must be wearing the wrong underarm deodorant!"

You don t say!

My dad was a Reganian arms race missle gyro designer.

ShadowInEdenWrote:

Funny, I making these posts 6:00 am Central Time ... Y'know, to wake me up before I head off to my job as a chemical weapons designer for Haliburton. The moment I start posting is the moment people apparently start leaving. The board slows to a crawl. And I'm thinking: "Holy God, I must be wearing the wrong underarm deodorant!"

You don t say!

My dad was a Reganian arms race missle gyro designer.

Wes Reed, The Bashful OneWrote:

Duuuude, 'merica was founded on surfin'!











Hmmm, last time I checked, churches were for worship and schools were for education. How about we make a deal with the true believers: they can have their prayers in schools if we can teach evolution/science in their churches. Sounds like a deal, eh?

A big AMEN.



Listen, as an Agnostic, I honestly don't care if "believers" pray in our public schools... just as long as they do it privately and silently. Pray from the heart, not the mouth, okay?

Religion should definetly stay of school. It's a trade-off.



You dont hear about God in school, and you don't learn anything at Church.

When I went to high school in TX (which was just last semester) and we had a moment of silence after the announcements, which no one followed probably because we had work to do. I wrote a paper against it and read it at a UIL tournament, arguing that it would usher in school prayer. The judge just smiled throughout the presentation, which I interpreted that he agreed or that he found it funny.

As a public school teacher, it is illegal for me to pray aloud in school, so I am unsure why we are discussing something that is already illegal. However, I pray many times without my students ever knowing for various things throughout the day. At the last school I worked at the students had a moment of silence every morning. Staff and students were encouraged to do positive thinking, pray, meditate, etc. during this time. Suprisingly enough the entire school really practiced silence, and I enjoyed having one minute of silence everyday.



However, students legally have the right to pray at anytime as long as they are not infringing on the learning process. This goes for any religion, not just Christianity. Rarely do students exercise this right, but it is important that it is there.

It meant that it is illegal for me to pray aloud in the presence of any student. When I say that I pray throughout the day, I mean that I pray silently with eyes open for wisdom to handle a situation, peace, for a student, etc. I hope that helps to clarify my former statement.

Math is yummy!Wrote:

As a public school teacher,

*snip*

At the last school I worked at the students had a moment of silence every morning. Staff and students were encouraged to do positive thinking, pray, meditate, etc. during this time. Suprisingly enough the entire school really practiced silence, and I enjoyed having one minute of silence everyday.

*snip*

I always smile at the back-door attempt to insert prayer into school with the obvious smoke-screen that is called a "Moment of Silence". Every time I was in the presence of these "Moments" I could always hear several "silent" people mumbling their prayers just loud enough that everyone close by could hear them and sometimes, several people mumbled in unison their "silent" prayer so that the room was engulfed in a low-level synchronised prayer that seemed almost like a challenge for someone to say something against their "non-silence".



And I've always wondered...what if someone refused to be silent and continued with their business in ways that were obviously non-religious (such as shuffling books or talking to another)? Would that be "dis-respectful" to those who used the time to pray?



A "Moment of Silence" is nothing more than a tacit means of disguising permission to divert school time to prayer. It is similar to the attempts to insert creationism/intelligent design into "science" classes. It is dishonest and is immoral as it is, those who claim to be religiously moral, actually commiting a lie.

ShadowInEdenWrote:

Good point. I guess I still don't have a problem with "moments of silence" because they don't specify any particular deity of any particular religion. But I understand and am familiar with the tactic you mentioned.

You still didn't answer my question, my one-eyed friend.



What would happen if someone's "Moment of Silence" wasn't "respectful" to those who require silence while they pray? Also...what about reactions to those who can't seem to pray quietly in an obvious challenge?

Rick I have never seen the things you refer to. Personally I like it as a teacher because it gives me a moment of silence to put the last of my thoughts together before beginning the day. Teaching 85 minute algebra classes to 100 8th graders a day can get crazy. It is my one non-crazy moment.



I have never had a student try to pray quietly before. However, I would treat it like any other noise during that time. I will ask them to be quiet once, and if they refuse they may stand in the hall until that time is over. I have never had that happen, because my students have always been good at being respectful, because I treat them with respect as people that will soon be adults.